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Why Lancer is Currently the Weakest Class

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    #31
    Originally posted by Branyx View Post
    I don't think would be good idea to buff lancers
    They have the fastest attk animation on the game
    Making their attk pts go higher would be an abuse
    Did you really look through the data on my post? At no point did I say Lancers needs to have higher atk points. I said they need better SCALING ...

    What Lancers need isn't more attack stats, it's more damage scaling so that late game Lancers don't fall off super hard like they are right now. Yeah they have the highest single hit AP skills, but in comparison to overall scaling of other damage classes' multi-hit damage scaling, it's poop.

    Why were Archers poop back at level 80 cap? It's simple, they had very low base atk/ matk stats so they cannot break the threshold to overcome the opponent's defense scaling.

    Why were Soldiers poop back at level 80 cap? Because they didn't even have ADV rings yet so their damage scales off of attack, which is something they shouldn't be building that much on a Soldier. Another reason is because they don't have enough armors and red monsters yet to scale well into damage.

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    • Guest's Avatar
      Guest commented
      Editing a comment
      No I dint mean your data I mean the tittle
      I commented on the persons title an also
      The soldier archer was after

      An didn't know tho about archer scale an soldier

    #32
    Give lancer passive critical rate boost (5%-10%)? Its different from other classes and 1 of every 10 attacks for critical isn't op.

    Capped at 40-50% if shina and eagle eye
    Last edited by KDremade; 02-01-2016, 05:41 PM.

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    • Oakbing
      Oakbing commented
      Editing a comment
      while that may be good to have, it doesn't fix the fundamental problem of scaling... unless somehow Lancers gets bonus damage from Critical hits... or something idk.

    #33
    Lancer do have passive 5% crit damage boot in Archdragoon...not sure if that's enough. But also Soldier benefits more in Apollo set than Lancers xD

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      #34
      Dmg crit from lancer is so /rofl usually al games are 200% in some 200% but here i say its 20-30%

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        #35
        Well, i cant wait until i see a aoe double sting instead of that slow and weak dragon crush. /dreaming

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          #36
          Nerf Mages and Archers, nerf defenses, buff cleric cast time but make it less tanky. As for soldier, make it a dps or make it protect allies better, not just a "i just cheer till you die".
          The current meta is pretty stupid, actually if there's a meta or FOTM class, it shows a deficiency on the game design. I know balance is impossible, but don't make the imbalance pretty obvious.
          Also i think Fatal Testament is pretty OP, and only archers can have it XL.

          Sometimes i think A-team devs just throw some random numbers to habilities and monsters.

          Do something so everybody can play whatever they like (or what the RNG liked you to be) and still be competitive.

          Comment


          • Mosaic
            Mosaic commented
            Editing a comment
            Fatal testament is the same across boards.

            XL only means higher chance

          • Hatsya Souji
            Hatsya Souji commented
            Editing a comment
            Might as well introduce reflex-intensive classes that requires a well-timed press to bend the game? Like remember the Guard command, and few armors hinted shields? Let that be a Swashbuckler class, specializes in counter-attacking & timed-defense — a willful reflect.

          #37
          Some of the suggestions here are ridiculous. Buff scaling? Nerf archers for being the dps class? Reduce defensive scalings?! Ever think it's because lancer are not playing to their potential or their role? *sigh* OK here goes the lancer secret


          Now if you want to play Lancer to its fullest potential in pve, heart of the spear, physical testaments, and an optional cost recovery weapon are your best friends. Dump blitz, for it is an awwwful pve skill. Instead, focus all of your spear procs in the front of your build, and the physical testaments (and cost recovery if you decide you like it) in the back. Take attack stance instead of blitz(major damage if 6 pets but leaves you vulnerable, easier to do with more armors in place of a pet or two or just be so overcapped in gearscore that it carries you through anyway. Dont worry attack stance boost your damage higher than a single pet would). What you will do is focus on breaking your target with a combo of 2 of the 4 sting abilities (pierce sting, sting savage sting, or savage sting double sting.... I recommend sting and savage sting) depending on your preferences, and with your attack stance and 3 heart of spear procs, you have quite a high chance at breaking them.

          After you break them, spam basic attack. Spaaaaam it. Why basic attack? With attack stance it's 80ap for 5 energy, so 16 effeciency with no proc which is pretty decent (blitz is about 15ish) but every physical testament proc you get has an insane boost to effeciency (Apollo set is going to go off almost every time), and any cost recovery proc you get will make it completely free and causes you to actually generate cost as you dps.. And if you are a lucky players with joan, your basic attack base is 110ap, a 22 effeciency no proc attack, up to a 38 effeciency double proc. This is by far the best dps build you can do as a lancer, as well as make you a godly breaker, as your stings will not be used for pure dps, and only used to reapply break your target (meaning they are really always off cooldown when it's time to break). MAKE SURE THEY ARE BROKEN BEFORE SPAMMING BASIC ATTACK SO THE ARMOR DOESN'T CUT YOUR DAMAGE OFF. Dps classes like archer will love you, as there really aren't any (can count like 3) lancers in this game that actually focus on break lIke they should. Have fun being the legendary lancer who can out dps all but archer, the pure dps class (but only with your help can he do it, hahaha)
          Last edited by vzReo; 02-04-2016, 11:48 AM.

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          • stefan00b
            stefan00b commented
            Editing a comment
            wait i can't tell by your wording, but are you suggesting that HoS is better than PT? if so I'd like to hear your thoughts on why
            Last edited by stefan00b; 02-04-2016, 05:00 PM.

          • Guest's Avatar
            Guest commented
            Editing a comment
            stefan00b HoS has a slightly higher activation chance, but other than damace, a heart of the spear proc adds an insane amount of break value to your sting, like 5* more than the skill itself. These procs are for the purpose of breaking enemies as soon as possible. You still want PT for basic attack pros (Apollo set does about all the work you need but add some more)

          • stefan00b
            stefan00b commented
            Editing a comment
            i see. thanks for the input

          #38
          Originally posted by vzReo View Post
          Some of the suggestions here are ridiculous. Buff scaling? Nerf archers for being the dps class? Reduce defensive scalings?! Ever think it's because lancer are not playing to their potential or their role? *sigh* OK here goes the lancer secret


          Now if you want to play Lancer to its fullest potential in pve, heart of the spear, physical testaments, and an optional cost recovery weapon are your best friends. Dump blitz, for it is an awwwful pve skill. Instead, focus all of your spear procs in the front of your build, and the physical testaments (and cost recovery if you decide you like it) in the back. Take attack stance instead of blitz(major damage if 6 pets but leaves you vulnerable, easier to do with more armors in place or a pet or two or just be so overcapped in gearscore that it carries you through anyway. Dont worry attack stance boost your damage higher than a single pet would). What you will do is focus on breaking your target with a combo of 2 of the 4 sting abilities (pierce sting, sting savage sting, or savage sting double sting.... I recommend sting and savage sting) depending on your preferences, and with your attack stance and 3 heart of spear procs, you have quite a high chance at breaking them.

          After you break them, spam basic attack. Spaaaaam it. Why basic attack? With attack stance it's 80ap for 5 energy, so 16 effeciency with no proc which is pretty decent (blitz is about 15ish) but every physical testament proc you get has an insane boost to effeciency (Apollo set is going to go off almost every time), and any cost recovery proc you get will make it completely free and causes you to actually generate cost as you dps.. And if you are a lucky players with joan, your basic attack base is 110ap, a 22 effeciency no proc attack, up to a 38 effeciency double proc. This is by far the best dps build you can do as a lancer, as well as make you a godly breaker, as your stings will not be used for pure dps, and only used to refer break your target (meaning they areally alwas off coolown when it's time to break). MAKE SURE THEY ARE BROKEN BEFORE SPAMMING BASIC ATTACK SO THE ARMOR DOESN'T CUT YOUR DAMAGE OFF. Dps classes like archer will love you, as there really aren't any lancer in this game that actually focus on break. Have fun being the legendart lancer who can out dps all but archer, the pure dps class (but only with your help can he do it, hahaha)
          That's actually a good idea and something I have been thinking for a while but never got around testing out because math is hard and I'm lazy. But if anything has the Reo/Fujin stamp of approval that's good enough for me. I've noticed that the new Apollo set has increased my damage output but lowered my Sting procs. So I do think after I get enough data I will swap to three stings instead of two, at the moment I don't actually know if the Apollo proc priority makes it necessary to use Savage over Blitz.
          No longer playing.

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          • Guest's Avatar
            Guest commented
            Editing a comment
            Yea, on paper the best weapon selection seemed to be apollo, 3 stings, then 2 test (or 1 test 1 cost rec)

            Reason to use savage over blitz is because sometimes you don't get a sting proc, so a second sting can be your second chance. If the first sting breaks I'd immediately start basic attacking without bothering with the next sting.
            Last edited by vzReo; 02-04-2016, 09:46 AM.

          #39
          What's sad is that I'm one of the very few people who regularly use Attack Stance.
          People don't really give this ability the chance it deserves and I even get scolded by pugs from time to time, because they say, "you're going to die noob".
          I used to use it with Basic Attack back when I was a 6 sword Soldier, but now my ATK sits between 12k to 36k so it's no longer an option.


          Attack Stance is really OP... the 25 AP received isn't going to do anything to you in PvE either. Archers are running content with half of a Lancer's defenses and a hell of a lot less HP. Attack Stance isn't going to make you die... especially since Lancers are sturdy as hell.
          Nemurerumori / Sword / Fujin
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          • boltthecat
            boltthecat commented
            Editing a comment
            But archers have mdef

          • Nemurerumori
            Nemurerumori commented
            Editing a comment
            MDEF.... right. :-)

          • AsuraPhoenix
            AsuraPhoenix commented
            Editing a comment
            I can only imagine players who don't have enough weapons, but have enough armors, making good use of attack stance. Otherwise, you can just shift your gears around if you want to increase your atk and decrease your def, and save a slot for a different ability.

          #40
          I did the math on vzReo's post and the 16 efficiency is higher than sting, pierce, or Ssting with attack stance, all of them are below 15.5. Nice job, never did the math on attack stance before.

          Something I wanted to clarify though:

          If the monster's been max breaked, do you still keep basic attacking? Ran a few levels with the setup and dps seems alright, but with all the other characters hitting the target whenever I used break, I never had the chance to get off more than 1-2 basic attacks before max break.

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          • Guest's Avatar
            Guest commented
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            That's still good can still fit more in there, and when it says max break it is indeed still in effect until the words fade and transfer to your unison meter, they are still broken. Your stings should be up by then to rebreak. Use plenty of haste for infinite spamming
            Last edited by vzReo; 02-04-2016, 01:07 PM.

          #41
          Be the first to make a guild of ALL LANCER! LIVE THE DREAM <3! I believe~

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            #42
            I found a solution for Lancers.

            Lancer only weapon: 30% chance to deal 100k TRUE Physical damage. (Adds on top of your regular damage) 100k + your regular damage.

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              #43
              I agree with you on this Cobalt and honestly I feel just as poopy about it for the same reasons. I'm also f2p and just pointed out in another post how it's basically impossible to maximize 2 classes or even be decent with 2 classes since infusion and such if you're f2p.

              Don't bash me too hard for suggesting this please. 5 lancers vs 5 mages. All lancers ee then if 2 lancers use demoralize and the other 3 dragon crush the mages would surely die, and also possibly be paralyzed out of using meteor rain at all. Maybe they'd get a few rocks off but wouldn't they die before they all hit? Lancers do also receive damage bonus against mages. Now, I know this is probably noobish and probably chancy at best. Also, it only helps against the mage scenario (if it even does) and there's probably a way mages can circumvent this strategy entirely. It doesn't make me want to try it any less though lol.

              We are the underdogs. I have no doubt of this. Doesn't everyone love the underdog though? There's gotta be some way we can think outside the box and be useful. If there is and we do, then it's even more worth figuring it out.
              Last edited by Gillroyale; 02-05-2016, 11:03 AM.
              How we look recruiting before RGB

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              • Guest's Avatar
                Guest commented
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                Dragon crush is too slow. They will die. Lancer can counter mage but not like this

              • Gillroyale
                Gillroyale commented
                Editing a comment
                What's the ap of meteor rain per hit? I mean, the one proposed advantage is that dragon crush is full ap in one hit and meteor rain is split up. So in my theory, the lancers may get hit by one or two meteors but will that be enough to kill them outright? Do you agree the 40% defense reduction would be sufficient to cause 3 dragon crush to kill 3 mages? Don't forget everyone's hp is reduced by 30% from ee. Also account for the bonus damage to mages. How much defense do the mages in the scenario have? How much mdef do the lancers have? I need numbers to understand. I know already this is ridiculously cost inefficient. The entire scenario is kinda ridiculous honestly. There are just way to many variables, not to mention this match up will probably never happen.

                Maybe lancers true calling is using nothing but other classes buff abilities to augment their team, so the other classes can run their best dps abilities. One benefit of being a Lancer, we don't tend to generate much aggro in gvg do we? xD
                Guildy Beth: Should we gank the Lancer?
                Guildy Steven: ...Why?

                I know I'm grasping at straws. This is really sad. I joke, but inside I'm crying.

              #44
              Another depressing fact is we have no really good free monsters. Ifrit is just a beefed up jack right? So instead of giving us a fire monster with heals, they give us confusion so we can rely on rng to make our enemies heal us. Joan and Fiine provide good buffs and heals but you have to buy them. I was holding out hope for the guild raid fire monster but it's literally the worst one so far. I just want a fire monster that has refresh, buffs or heals. Some utility would be nice.

              Forgive me if any of this was mentioned previously but I neglected to read more than half the posts.
              How we look recruiting before RGB

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              • Guest's Avatar
                Guest commented
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                Pet types are in mind when they think of balance. There isn't supposed to be much utility in fire

              • Gillroyale
                Gillroyale commented
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                they mix it up a little tho don't they? I just want a free fire or haste monster with utility
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