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    Why Lancer is Currently the Weakest Class

    For a while now there has been a large influx of stranded lancers looking for a guild. The reason why is because in the current gvg meta game, lancer is no longer a viable class. Why is this the case? For starters let me explain the nature of competitive gvg.

    Guilds are seperated into two groups. The front line team and the crystal breaker team. Currently, there are two different main front line class compositions, and one backline class composition.

    The frontline is made up of either soldiers, or mages and a cleric. A soldier frontline is characterized by a solid team focused on tanking enemy fire and building unison to defeat the opposing enemy frontline. The reason why this works is because: Soldiers are the tankiest class in the game, soldiers have a healing ability, and soldiers have access to the general only move charisma. Alternatively guilds use an all mage team. This composition is designed for a quick, high damage aoe attacks and also acts as the only way to successfully fight against an all soldier frontline. The reason why this works is because: Mages have access to the wizard only move meteor rain. This is the strongest attack in the entire game, and is faster than the attacks of most classes except for lancers. This allows mage to burst down the opponent fast enough to avoid taking damage themselves. However lancer cannot counter this because the only move that can counter this is knights blitz, which is the fastest move in the game. However, the critical problem with this is that knights blitz is a single target move, and its firepower is no where near enough for it to take out 4 mages in time to avoid being killed yourself. Besides this lancer has dragon crush, a similar move to meteor rain, however, dragon crush is an inferior move to meteor rain. Having a much longer attack animation, and lower damage output. It gets completely out performed by mage. The crystal breaker team is made up of all archers. The reason why this is the most effective is because archer has the highest dps in the entire game, and also has access to the ranger only move wind of courage.

    Now how does lancer fit into all of this? The problem is lancer doesnt fit. Because lancer's well rounded stats are not sought after, the fundamental nature of gvg doesnt actually have a situation where any of lancers strengths are useful. Lets break down the offensive and defensive aspects of the lancer class and explain why its outclassed in both.

    Damage: Damage will be seperated into two categories, aoe damage and single target damage. Aoe damage is useful for the front line, and single target damage is useful for the crystal phase. Mage specializes in aoe damage, while archers specializes in single target damage. Lancer does not beat either of these classes in either of these damage types, what lancer has that makes up for this is having break bonus applied to their attacks. The key problem with this is that gvg fails to incorporate break mechanics into matches, nullifying the only unique advantage that lancer has over other classes. The extremely fast frontline battles prevent enemies to be properly breaked, and the sheer damage each side has makes the defense reduction break applies inconsequential.The attack speed advantage lancer has still loses out to meteor rain, because lancer does not have the damage to burst down enough opponents in the first coordinated attack.

    Defense: Lancer has the second highest health, only soldier beats lancer here. However one key difference is that the optimal build for a lancer is similar to archer and mage. While soldier and cleric both focus on defensive slots over offensive ones. The 5 classes are seperated into 2 different cost distributions. Lancer/Archer/Mage use a 6/3/3/6 slot allocation. While Cleric/Soldier uses a 2/6/6/5 slot allocation. This key difference puts lancer above archer and mage in terms of defensiveness, but cleric and soldier are twice as tanky. On top of this, cleric and soldier have defensive utilities that lancer does not have, like healing and charisma. In practice, lancers health is worthless, its too low to survive the high damages of opponent attacks, having next to no difference when compared to the defenses of archer or mage. The nature of gvg prevents lancer from benefitting from its well rounded stats. All of the other classes, which have particular strengths and weaknesses, out class lancer because the nature of gvg allows them to focus on its strengths and mitigate their weaknesses.

    In summary, lancer has balanced stats, and doesnt excel in a specific area unlike the other classes. The only advantage lancer has is break bonus and fast attack speed. But, neither of these advantages can be used. Gvg is characterized by short distinct rounds. Its an environment that in a competitive team, each player can maximize the benefits of its particular class, while mitigating any of its weaknesses, a type of strategy known as "min maxing". For example, archer can maximize its main stength, its dps, by reserving itself to attacking the crystal only, with pre prepared attack buffs. While completely removing all of its weaknesses, like its slow attack animations and low defenses by rarely ever even having to put itself in danger. This allows archer to ether exchange without any worry either. This is a type of strategy that lancer cannot make use of due to its balanced stats, and there are no opportunities where lancer can take advantages of its strengths. Because of this lancer is the weakest class and cannot compete at all.
    Last edited by Cobalt; 01-24-2016, 08:29 PM.
    No longer playing.

    #2
    I dont expect Ateam to be able to properly balance all of the classes in the game, considering how the fundamental mechanics of this game work. In terms of PvE, lancer is perfectly balanced, so any buffs to lancer wont be a good thing. The problem isnt the class itself, the problem is with how gvg works, and how it fails to properly balance classes in PvP play. The only reliable action is to be able to adapt and use another class besides lancer. The problem with this is that each class relies on limited time events like Apollo and Ifrit in order to stay strong. Another key mechanic that gets in the way of properly using two classes happens to be infusing your gear with plusses. Players like me, are not spend enough money on this game to garner enough plusses, or orbs and medals to properly maintain two classes to a competitive standard. The huge period of time seperating events like Apollo from Alice prevent people from even attempting to use another class for long periods of time.

    This is a problem that has happened to me. I did not obtain enough orbs, medals or alices to become an archer. By the time I realized the class I took so much comfort in was no longer able to meet the standards, it was too late. Alice was too far gone. I have no choice but to stick to my class for potentially months before Alice comes back again. Because of this I got kicked from my guild because my class isnt viable enough to compete in the current meta game. I am currently STILL looking for a strong enough guild to guarantee me a place in the top 99 this upcoming rgb.

    Being discriminated against, not because I fail at meeting attendance requirements, not because im not a good team member, not because im too weak, basically of no fault of my own. But simply because my class is no longer wanted is not a fun experience. Especially when the current system prevents me from switching to another class without shelling out at least 100 dollars. I dont appreciate being treated like this. I play this game to have fun, not to be ostracized from gvg and basically get forced into guild hunting and pull more weight than everyone else. If I am unable to get at least 99th place in the upcoming rgb, I will quit this game. But before that, I just want to offer this complaint, so hopefuly something can be done to help lancers, and potentially other classes from facing similar problems in the future. Thanks for reading and peace out.
    Last edited by Cobalt; 01-24-2016, 03:30 AM.
    No longer playing.

    Comment


    • Lu Bu
      Lu Bu commented
      Editing a comment
      Now if only you had said all this stuff earlier instead of getting the other topic locked you giant monster! But yah I'm surprised you hadn't discovered the downfall of the Lancer Race sooner, there's a reason why I made that wonderful video about my Alice 42 experience when I was only 2 weeks old ahahaha

    #3
    +1
    And Lancer is the only class that can't help him/herslf
    Archer: world tree's blessing
    Soldier: reflection&high hp&self hp buff
    Mage: high mtk&heal
    Cleric: cleric
    Lancer: cure with sucky mtk? :/

    Many Forum user says lancer is jack of all trades, but
    in-game class description says Lancer is true powerhouse and archer is well-balanced allrounder.
    And you know, archer is the real jack of all trades
    (And happens to be a DPS expert at the same time)
    lancer is not jack of all trades.
    lancer is good at nothing sucker
    (Or atk speed expert XD)
    Last edited by Luxy; 01-24-2016, 03:39 AM.

    Comment


    • Desperer
      Desperer commented
      Editing a comment
      Lancer is the true powerhouse though - they definitely do the most damage with a single hit, so much so that they 'break' enemy defenses.

      Archer also fits the description. It has tons and tons of support skills and a very good set of mdef passives. If someone wanted to make a tanky/support mage, the tools are definitely there. It just so happens that DPS is one of those roles it can take on and happens to be the best one when optimized. Just remember that Archers are heavily punished by their class choice when they decide to go full DPS - they lose out on most of their passives bonuses, they have a very tiny selection of viable skills, and their attack passives are laughable (although reasonably so).

    • Luxy
      Luxy commented
      Editing a comment
      Yeah, lancer can make break easily.
      But What's the big deal?

      Other classes can make Break as well. Not much like lancers, but still can and its not that hard.
      In guild raid or nyx/appolo whatever 40/45 ap run
      Do we need lancer? As a lancer myself-hell no
      Lancer is the last class i wanted to be with in hard fight

      5archers, 5mages, and maybe 5soldiers could win almost every powerful opponent without cleric
      But 5lancers? Retire is non-optional m8! : D

      I Wish my 4UR lances become sword or something else. Frankly, I want it to be bow. but i shouldn't ask that much right? ;/
      Last edited by Luxy; 01-24-2016, 12:18 PM.

    • Gillroyale
      Gillroyale commented
      Editing a comment
      cleric description a inaccurate as well because it says it heals allies ad bolsters their stats iirc and cleric literally has no buffs other than barrier and lor (correct me if I'm mistaken). and those don't bolster stats, they reduce damage.

    #4
    While I agree that Lancer has less apparent use for GvG, and may in fact be the weakest class for guild battles, I don't think there's anything wrong with that and if they are the weakest it is not by a wide margin. I especially don't think there's anything wrong with having a "jack of all trades" class, especially with classes being so freeform in this game. With lancer changed/removed, you would basically be left with two classes: tank and DPS. Lancer bridges the gap between those two playstyles and does a fine job of it. Because there's so much versatility there, and you yourself claimed that Lancer sucks as DPS, I find it intriguing that you call a DPS build "optimal". Maybe you're just building wrong. Maybe you're not building for your role. Maybe you're building for the wrong role. Maybe you're on the wrong team. There's no doubt in my mind that Lancer can be successful in GvG with the right team composition and a build that can benefit it.

    Your total denial of any positive attributes for your own class is quite shocking, too. You mention that lancer has the fastest attack speed but it can't utilize this because GvG rounds are too short. Um, hello? That sounds like a bonus to lancers if you ask me. Being able to attack in the blink of an eye when rounds end in 1-2 minutes is huge. And no, one lancer isn't going to kill 4 mages before they can get a meteor rain off. But, in that situation you're totally skewing the example to purposefully put lancers in a bad light. If you had a team of 4 lancers versus a team of 4 mages, and every lancer targeted a different mage, you can reasonably expect at least half of the mages to die before having a chance to meteor. This would lead to less lancers dying because there are less hot rocks being thrown at them when it finally does cast. Then, you have the benefit of being able to have a reasonable amount of mdef without sacrificing damage like a soldier would.

    By the way, I'm disregarding your personal "woe is me" rant because that argument should have no basis when discussing why a class needs buffs. Suck it up, dude. Making top 100 in this game is easy. Just look at the current #100 guild: it has 8 people, only three of which are barely past 130k GS. The guild isn't even max level, and is clearly not even competitive. Any guild full of reasonably high GS players could beat that easily. I'm sorry that you can't be top 10 material as a F2P player, but that's how these games work and there's really no point in complaining about something that cannot be changed.





    Des | 2132847289

    Comment


    • Lu Bu
      Lu Bu commented
      Editing a comment
      I actually could agree with that. I feel that at the highest level they are great specialized tools in GvG for surgically battering things while still retaining the tankiness (Especially since they are not tied down to specifically types of defenses) to do other unscaled support type moves such as cheer after the fact. Not exactly cheap to pull off though, and takes a lot of commitment and good gear rolls, and a guild willing to work them into their strategy....unlike where I just went Archer, grabbed 6 Alice and then get VIP treatment in all the guilds.

      However, I still feel that Lancers can benefit from having other unique options available to them without having to jump through said hoops.

    #5
    I read to the part about meteor rain being fast. Is the slowest attack on the game. Ls and heals are even faster.

    I don't think the game will give lancers much of a buff since I'm pretty sure lancers outnumber the other classes by a healthy margin.

    Comment


      #6
      Originally posted by Oroborus View Post
      I read to the part about meteor rain being fast. Is the slowest attack on the game. Ls and heals are even faster.

      I don't think the game will give lancers much of a buff since I'm pretty sure lancers outnumber the other classes by a healthy margin.
      Actually, meteorrain is extremely fast. I didn't believe so myself till i tested it out. Meteorrain is barely slower than KB.

      Nemurerumori / Sword / Fujin
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      • Oroborus
        Oroborus commented
        Editing a comment
        Well I stand corrected then. I was thinking it was the same as meteor. That would explain why meteor rarely damages anyone in a round in which the other team immediately unisons, while meteor rain seems to hit targets pretty well.

        My point stands about there being way more lancers than any other class. I guess they are so popular because it is the strongest class early on.

      • Shanoa
        Shanoa commented
        Editing a comment
        Yup, Meteor Rain is surprisingly fast, should you EE a little after the mage at the start of the round you would take some hits. Still slower than KB but not by much, really.
        However, should the mage die in the middle of the skill, no matter how many meteors you see in the animation, the target won't suffer any damage, so you still have a way to counter it if you raid quick enough. Even if you're a little late Knight Blitzing, you can minimize the hits with a quick kill.
        None of that is new but just thought I would add some more info :]

      • xkezzy
        xkezzy commented
        Editing a comment
        Meteor rain is fast but the damage isn't instant. If you get killed in the process of your meteor rain going off. It wont do any damage and you die instead from attacks. (Lancers skill damage is instants)

      #7
      Even as me using a Lancer in my guild currently I am beginning to see the problems of being a Lancer in a GvG environment. I'm kinda hoping that Apollo's Blessing will at help a little bit but as it stands now. Mages will easily outdo Lancer due to faster attack output and better support. Dragon Crush has a real slow cast time for me since you have to move to enemy, and there's a small delay when the attack is launched while the mage counterpart Meteor Rain comes almost instantly with no delays.
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        #8
        Lancer is better because his skills got very low CD,his skills are cheaper and get more dmg base and can pproc pgysical or magic dmg, archers kills easily anything with 1hko,is more versatile with winds, with so many skills suporter. mage is "squishy" low def,and bonus but if u dont kill with 2 hit you die(hb is enough to kill a lancer ) because lancer skill hot very high CD(hb 15, other attack 12) and you got so many seconds without option to do anything, skewered,or any attack from lancers easily do more dmg than knights blitz, meteors too, etc... skills of lancer are fast animation high cost high cd,and only a role "break" these is outdated,mages and archers break more easily than me with 3 skills to break, then my role is thrash,low dmg high cd expensive and break than other clases do, iwhen clases were updated,updated all except lancer,we need a new update to solve these things,to make equilibrate we need a skill that hits so 3-4 times with break 100% make skills that ignores DEF, a skills that ateals life, because lancer need cheap and powerfull skills with low CD

        Comment


          #9
          In my opinion lancer is a great class to star with like someone said above the cold down is really fast which allow you to attack more often the cost of the abilities are cheap the only expensive one is blitz. Also it provide u enough HP and to stay alive when you are running and high attack not to mention again the high speed. Once level 80 is reach. Classes like mages and archers start taking the advantage and the only reasom for that the class itself. You will still need lancers to complete some quest for the benefit of break but with rain and woc well let's be honest who want the enemy to be break. My point with all this that lancer is a beginners class but you will need to change it when you reach level 80. At that level you will have enough gear so have a balance second class enough cost to realise of you want to play as DPS or offensive.
          Current guild: Unknow ...... Level: Unknow ...... ID: Unknow ...... Classes: Unknow ...... If you can find me in the game I will give you Super argument or a cookie up to you

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            #10
            Originally posted by Desperer View Post
            While I agree that Lancer has less apparent use for GvG, and may in fact be the weakest class for guild battles, I don't think there's anything wrong with that and if they are the weakest it is not by a wide margin. I especially don't think there's anything wrong with having a "jack of all trades" class, especially with classes being so freeform in this game. With lancer changed/removed, you would basically be left with two classes: tank and DPS. Lancer bridges the gap between those two playstyles and does a fine job of it. Because there's so much versatility there, and you yourself claimed that Lancer sucks as DPS, I find it intriguing that you call a DPS build "optimal". Maybe you're just building wrong. Maybe you're not building for your role. Maybe you're building for the wrong role. Maybe you're on the wrong team. There's no doubt in my mind that Lancer can be successful in GvG with the right team composition and a build that can benefit it.
            I dont even understand the logic behind this first paragraph. You just agreed with me, that lancer is the weakest class in gvg. Then you are saying that this isnt a bad thing? I cant even begin to wrap my head around how this is a good thing or could ever be a good thing. One thing I want to emphasize, which I have already done in my post, is that lancer itself is a perfectly balanced class, the problem is that gvg is designed in a way where lancer cannot benefit off of its strengths. Being a jack of all trades is precisely why its weak in gvg. Because, like how I already emphasized in my post, the nature of gvg allows all classes to maximze its strengths, while allowing them to mitigate or ignore all of its weaknesses. The balanced stats of lancer can be properly used in pve play but in the short, isolated environments of gvg, lancer cannot make use of all of its strengths. Im also completely dumb founded that you could possibly think anything but a DPS build would be viable on a lancer. Every single attacking class focuses on maximizing damage first. Even soldier does this. Thats because damage far out scales defense. Every point in attack is worth more than double a defense point is worth. If I focused on defense I would just be a psuedo soldier without any of the benefits a soldier has. I would also have to change my cost into a hybrid build like 6/4/4/4 or something. Doing something like that is completely infeasible for someone who doesnt pay money.

            Your total denial of any positive attributes for your own class is quite shocking, too. You mention that lancer has the fastest attack speed but it can't utilize this because GvG rounds are too short. Um, hello? That sounds like a bonus to lancers if you ask me. Being able to attack in the blink of an eye when rounds end in 1-2 minutes is huge. And no, one lancer isn't going to kill 4 mages before they can get a meteor rain off. But, in that situation you're totally skewing the example to purposefully put lancers in a bad light. If you had a team of 4 lancers versus a team of 4 mages, and every lancer targeted a different mage, you can reasonably expect at least half of the mages to die before having a chance to meteor. This would lead to less lancers dying because there are less hot rocks being thrown at them when it finally does cast. Then, you have the benefit of being able to have a reasonable amount of mdef without sacrificing damage like a soldier would.
            The points you make here confirm it for me that you have misinterpreted and completely disregarded some key points that I have made if you seriously think this is an accurate representation of my opinion. Its not, this is just a bad strawman arguement. As I have already said before, the problem isnt lancer itself, the problem is gvg, and how its system works against lancers strengths. But to be fair, there are some elaborations I didnt point out about why lancers high attack speed cant be properly used. Let me explain why the example you gave isnt correct. 4 lancers will not beat 4 mages. Knights blitz is not strong enough to reliably one shot a mage, its entirely reliant on procs. This isnt even up for discussion. Knights blitz cannot one shot, period. You should know this. High attack speed is only useful when it can actually kill the target in a single hit. In a 4 lancer vs 4 mage situation, every 2 lancers must focus the same mage in order to reliably one shot. That leaves 2 mages alive, considering no mistakes were made. 2 mages can then in turn, one shot 3 lancers. Considering no mistakes were made. Compared to an all soldier front line it no longer even becomes a contest. Soldier counters lancer completely and utterly. When comparing a 4 lancer frontline to a 4 mage or soldier frontline it becomes clear who has the least chance of winning.

            By the way, I'm disregarding your personal "woe is me" rant because that argument should have no basis when discussing why a class needs buffs. Suck it up, dude. Making top 100 in this game is easy. Just look at the current #100 guild: it has 8 people, only three of which are barely past 130k GS. The guild isn't even max level, and is clearly not even competitive. Any guild full of reasonably high GS players could beat that easily. I'm sorry that you can't be top 10 material as a F2P player, but that's how these games work and there's really no point in complaining about something that cannot be changed.
            Why would you even begin to consider my personal problems to be part of the same arguement? Theres a reason why its a second post, and it very clearly shows it talks about a completely seperate issue. The post concerning lancer is completely objective. Besides, do you seriously thing anyone in their right mind would think settling with a 130k gs, 8 man guild is a good idea? No they wont. You cant possibly expect that to reliably get top 100. The rank they had last rgb doesnt mean they will score a similar rank the next rgb, the disparity in strength between active and casual guilds become bigger and bigger every passing day and its impossible to predict the results of next rgb. The best thing to do is find a guild that you think can score 80th place at the very minimum. Mistakes can be made, things you didnt prepare for or think about could arise.

            Honestly, Im shocked and insulted at how alienated I feel. The way you responded to this post completely ignores everything you already personally know about me and about the problems I have already shared before hand.
            Last edited by Cobalt; 01-24-2016, 08:32 PM.
            No longer playing.

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            • Guest's Avatar
              Guest commented
              Editing a comment
              Err, most of the things in that post sounded a little lopsided and hostile des, but the one thing that is true is what you said on the build. 6 3 4 6 is not an optimal Frontline build, not even for Frontline archers

            #11
            The only way that I can think of to better the lancer class(N.B I said the only way I can think of) is to increase ap for example sting-200ap savage sting-210ap + combo knights blitz 30000 ap lol xD jking and double sting 150 on both
            F2P is killing me

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              #12
              Knights blitz should be about 250ap
              F2P is killing me

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                #13
                Lancers got a buff. You have Joan now.

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                • Lu Bu
                  Lu Bu commented
                  Editing a comment
                  It's also a ''buff'' for Archers and Soldiers too because this game is a joke! Seriously tho that's not a buff, that's just a good monster

                #14
                I don't like talking about PVE because I feel like you're free to build however you like and if it works, great. So I will talk about the PVP aspect of the Lancer class, at least in my own understanding of the class.

                Let's just say, as a Lancer, I feel like we're strong early game up til around mid game, but once you reach the higher levels/ GS you start to fall off when mages and such become tankier than the paper thin stick fondlers they were back in Rank B guilds, and with the extra interception of clerics, Lancers begin to struggle to do their one job correctly: Assasinating the Mage on the other side. The reason behind why Lancers can no longer kill a Mage reliably is because their damage scaling falls off more and more as levels get higher and higher. HP is increased by a multiplier by the crystal in PVP, but damage is not proportionately increased to that. So basically that means the higher the level, the less damage Lancers will do compared to the amount of HP their opponents would have.

                I have mentioned before in other posts, that even though I am sitting at 70k atk, my strongest atk, Knight's Blitz, does only about 60-65k damage without any procs on a nearly defenseless enemy. My sting attacks, I'll just use Savage Sting as the example, does only about 40-45k damage without any procs on a nearly defenseless enemy. Now translate that into PVP, in the worst case scenario, against a Mage who has about 30k defense, that's 5700 damage reduced from defenses alone. Let's assume this is the crappiest mage on the planet and has no constant defense gears or any defense damage down gear skills, it will theoretically take my lancer 1 Knight's Blitz and 1 Savage Sting to maybe take the mage down to 0 or close to 0 hp if I get no procs. That's a total of 27 cost I need to use, meaning I have to begin with a EE as a lancer and hope to god I proc at least a physical testament in order to guarantee the 2 hit KO combo on a Mage in PVP, assuming there was no damage reduction skills or heals that was immediately placed on the Mage in question. The time it takes for a Lancer to pull off 1 KB and 1 Savage is longer than the entire duration of a Meteor Rain, which potentially can kill a Lancer right then and there unless defense procs were activated and the Mage was unlucky and did not get 5 hits in.

                Now realistically speaking, in PVP there's almost no way the above mentioned scenario would happen in high level play. The Mage if built well definitely will have physical damage reduction skills on their gears, and the defense would not be lower than 30k. In a realistic battle, the opener would most likely be Lancers doing EE and immediately go KB on a single Mage, while the Mage does EE and Meteor Rains, and if a Cleric is around maybe a EE and Dignity to heal the Mages. In that type of situation, the chances of even two Lancer's KB will have a very hard time killing a single Mage, and will most likely have to combo with a Savage Sting afterwards if their initial KB did not kill. Alternatively, Lancers may choose to start with Savage Stings to break, and then combo in with Knight's Blitz, which will probably result in a kill on a Mage assuming no major damage reduction skills were activated. This would require at least two Lancers to do a 2 hit combo on the Mage in order to secure one kill on the other side. Meaning 27 cost on both Lancers, totaling 54. If Lancers choose to 3 KB on a single Mage for an almost guaranteed kill, that's a total of 45 cost used. This to me sounds like an extremely cost ineffective thing to do just to kill one single person on the other side. The requirement for a Lancer to accomplish their mission becomes an extremely "cost" ly one.

                Now, if we compare that to the other classes in UL right now, we'll begin to see where the problem is with Lancers right now in PVP.

                Mages: Their signature opener in PVP would be Meteor Rain, 25 cost, and hits 3 people. With EE, Mages can immediately throw out Meteor Rain and hit 3 targets 2-6 times. Against Lancers and Soldiers who have lower mdef, two Mages aiming at the same crowd can probably kill at least one or two of them after their Meteor Rain combo. We'll assume in this situation that only 2 mages were used to target the same crowd of 3, meaning 50 cost is used, and potentially 1, 2, or even all 3 victims on the other side would be dead, assuming they were not mdef beasts.

                Archers: While I have no idea why they would be in the front lines in the current Meta, let's just assume they are, they start off with 5 more AP than the rest of the classes, so they only need to wait a little bit and don't even need to EE in order to start off their Lethal Strike on a Lancer or squishy target. If it procs most likely that Lancer/ squishy target is going to be close to death or dead, if it didn't proc then it did chump damage. Total AP used: 13, potential to damage one target enough for another teammate to follow up and kill. However, as Archers do way more damage during CB phase, this scenario is not very practical.

                Soldiers: I don't really think they open with a damaging move most of the time so I'll just not comment about that. They start with Charisma or cheer or something, so yeah, keep tanking ya'll ... 5 AP(?)

                Clerics: They are the healing class, they heal as needed/ barrier/ etc.

                So as you can see, currently in PVP the front lines that goes for damage is really just Mages and Lancers, in which Mages spend 50 cost to fatally wound or kill 3, while Lancers spends 45 to 54 cost to fatally wound or kill 1. See how unbalanced the resources used are? Now of course we can make Lancers use the much slower and less powerful Dragon Crush, but that's going to result in at least 3 Lancers if not more using them on the same crowd of 3 in order to kill the targets. Meaning that's 25 cost x 3 to 4, which is 25 to 50 costs higher than what Mages need to wound or kill 3. The cost required to secure a target and the scaling of damage on the attacking skills makes it apparent that Lancers are currently demanded much more resources to do the same things another class can do. That in itself created the current issue that Lancers are being outclassed by all the other damage classes in the game right now.

                What I would think makes the Lancer more viable and usable in PVP would be to adjust the way their skills work a bit. Not necessarily giving them even more AP than what they already have, but buffing what they are currently effective in doing right now. Break effect for starters will require a bit of a revamp, and maybe become a Lancer Exclusive effect which can be activated by the sting/ savage sting skill series. Break occurrence should probably be boosted for Lancers as well, maybe even making it so that after a sting or savage sting break is guaranteed to occur. This way, Lancers would be more inclined to start with the skill they are meant to start with, and after breaking the opponent's defense really going in for the kill with a finisher like Knight's Blitz. In terms of Knights Blitz and Dragon Crush, I would think that there should be a little bit of a buff to those two skills as well, perhaps giving them a % current or max hp damage on top of their actual AP damage in order to compensate for the overall less AP scaling that Lancers have right now compared to other damaging classes' bread and butter skills (no %hp damage effect on crystals or raid bosses, only on PVE and players). Obviously, the % hp damage shouldn't exceed a certain amount, and I would say something like 5-10% would probably be the highest it should go before becoming too overpowered. In my opinion this is a pretty necessary boost in order to compensate for some loss of damage due to late game bad scaling on Lancer's part.

                In terms of utility skills, Lancer's current critical strike boost skills are fine, but the advanced class skill should be somewhat revamped so that it gives a boost to critical strike and critical damage, but at a lesser percentage for either critical strike chance or critical strike damage. As it is right now, most lancers will probably find it hard to even fit one of those critical boost skills into their slots, let alone two of them, so an adjustment on that will need to be made or honestly the entire critical tree will need some sort of rework because as it is now it's not very good and is rarely used.

                Overall, I would say that Lancers are currently not very good because they require too much more resources than other classes to achieve the same results, and by boosting their cost to effect ratio a bit, they'll be able to compete against the current damage dealers once more. Lancers have a pretty unique role in this game as the defense render, but currently their strength of rending defense is not valuable or even strong enough to be considered their strength yet...
                Last edited by Oakbing; 01-24-2016, 11:39 PM.

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                • Oakbing
                  Oakbing commented
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                  Lol well then that's where opinions differ. No biggies.

                • Guest's Avatar
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                  game becomes more of an open book when you start doing studies

                • Oakbing
                  Oakbing commented
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                  Lol. And these results from the studies isn't always the only correct way of viewing things. In any case, each person will have their own opinion on things and feel differently about the overall balance of classes. It's not a big deal since that's how discussions are made, as long as nobody's forcefully trying to say they are right and everyone else is wrong..

                #15
                Helpful hints people actually are very unaware of regarding taking lancers:

                > Their high AP can break a soldiers defense. Not like break mechanic, but do considerable damage. If two lancers coordinate with two mages, the results are really painful. So it is best to vary your front line between those two to counter soldiers.

                I hate soldiers man. //shot

                > Fun Fact: The guild I'm in uses a lot of lancers.
                Last edited by Mosaic; 01-24-2016, 11:50 PM.
                Sleeper.

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                • Mosaic
                  Mosaic commented
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                  Idk it's not my guild actually I'll edit it

                • Oakbing
                  Oakbing commented
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                  Lol :< I thought u were gonna make a new guild

                • Mosaic
                  Mosaic commented
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                  But Father Ace sent me through his services
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