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    Advice for Lancer

    Hello! I would like to have some advice for my built....
    This is my mission set....

    I have spawned Kirin, so i should replace Siren with It or i will go too low on def?

    This is my GvG set...

    I have another Alice, maybe instead of Kfc?

    Ty very much
    Last edited by [MOD] Dominic; 05-12-2016, 08:27 PM.

    #2
    Don't really need KFC for GB unless you have some sort of Guild strategy around him...
    it all comes down to what kind of GB lancer you are, front line? dps? CB? that will make the difference in your build.
    Only thing i say is that you have too many helms and need more cost into monsters. Best to stack Apollos for base stats imho.

    Lastly, you should think about bringing EE into your questing set. Although MR is rather handy, EE makes the difference in a lot of quests especially with higher ranked players. If you want to transition into playing with stronger players it is recommended you bring EE, especially when using the find a party feature. not likely to find a hasting party that way anymore. Its become obsolete. Fiine is still a great monster to use for her other skills though so keep her around

    Truly Retired [ Yangire | Limitless | TrippyTurtles | ZERO ] - Providing the most natural and organic experiences and opinions.

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    • Ace
      Ace commented
      Editing a comment
      I disagree. Stacking 6 monsters isn't really a wise idea unless you're willing to fork over tons of money on Valk/Sci-fi/Solar armors/helms. With 6 monsters, you leave yourself very fragile and don't actually gain that much damage.

    #3
    Those images are huge.. Anyway theres a lancer guide that will you help you if you check the stickied posts in this section though Im not really too sure what you need advice on

    If youre asking what your cost allocation should look like I would recommend the 6/5/5/4 build for lancers

    For your missions (PvE) build I would replace your Knights Blitz and Thrust Lances with physical testaments or pierce/sting/savage sting lances.
    Looking at your monsters I think you should use Kirin in place of Shina. You already have a Fiine for a nice heal and pl along with a mass refresh. Shes my favorite and most frequently used monster and she can be used in almost any event. It also gives you an option for haste and a boost to mdef which most lancers dont have these days. You should also replace your Vol & Rena and the SSR Renball as they are the least cost efficient of your monsters but I do not know if you are able to replace them with 2 UR monsters. PvE skills - I recommend EE pierce and sting with the last slot being optional.

    GvG monsters: I dont want to give you advice on what to use because your monsters are dependent on what the rest of your guild is doing but I will say if you already have 1 Alice you wont need another one. For skills in Guild battles refer to "Lancer guide 2.0": https://forum.a-tm.co.jp/forum/uniso...ncer-guide-2-0
    Last edited by Crypt; 05-12-2016, 10:59 PM. Reason: redundance

    Comment


      #4
      You're already doing ok when it comes to cost distribution. However, I'd say put more cost into Armors because unlike Hats, there's a Class Sub Trait which boosts MDEF of Clothing gear. This will help significantly in fighting Mages in GBs, so keep that in mind when deciding whether to invest your cost into a Helm or Armor. Although you can still go by as long as you have the right procs. (Make sure you +99 top your Lances for a massive ATK boost)

      Also, Fiine is one of the best utility monsters for a Lancer, hands down. She gives a good heal, Mass Refresh, and Purifying Light at the same time, a big deal for PvE content.

      It's a common error for people to stack Apollos for Lancers. This will leave you with extremely low MDEF, leading to Lancers claiming that Mages counter them in GBs. Plus, if you take away 2 Monster slots, you can put more Armors, which give you more GS than monsters would due to infusion potential and passives. Also, armors give procs or effect constants, which matter more than raw stats (compared to like 2 copies of Avsaris).

      A 6/10/4 build can actually use Attack Stance in PvE content without taking too much damage. Sure, you can do it with a 6/8/6 build, but you'll die a lot faster than a glass Archer. Plus, Attack Stance makes up for the damage difference caused from losing 2 Apollos, so 6/10/4 + AS still hits as hard as 6/8/6 without AS. By using Attack Stance/EE/Sting/Savage Sting/Basic Attack, and having a Cost Recovery Lance, you won't be needing Haste; EE covers your cost, and the Basic Attack is deceptively high in both cost-efficiency and DPS at the same time after Attack Stance is used. (If used right, as in you Basic Attack right after you inflict Break, even if your other Sting move is off cooldown, you should reach the Boss wave with 80 cost to spare)

      Don't worry, you can fill in the 2 leftover Monster slots with 2 Firemins, which are 1 cost. When +198, and when all class passives are learned (for Soldier and Lancer), each Firemin gives 625 ATK and DEF, and 2 Firemin is like 1/4ths of an Apollo. But the more important part of putting 1 cost Elementalmins in your last 2 monster slots is the Elemental Attribute. So if you were to run Nyx, you'd bring 2 Lightmins; for Vol & Rena you'd bring 2 Watermins, and so on. Elemental attribute advantage is a 5% damage increase per stack of it you have, so 6 stacks Fire would deal 30% more damage against Wind monsters. The Limimins in the last 2 slots give at least 10% more damage on the right elements, a noticeable boost which also closes the gap for a 6/10/4 build with a 6/8/6 build.

      120 Monster cost should be the bare minimum, since it lets you choose 4 30 cost monsters for GBs. You can add a few more to it to accomodate the Elementalmins and Vol & Rena to pump out more ATK from your limited slots, even if V&L is cost-inefficient.

      P.S. For future reference, to prevent your images from taking the entire screen, resize it to 400 x 711 on Imgur (keep the proportions).
      Last edited by LaconicLeaf; 05-16-2016, 01:34 PM.


      IGN: FN || Leaf ID: 2042811095

      This Is How You DO Play Lancers

      Comment


      • Crypt
        Crypt commented
        Editing a comment
        Ah you make some great points that I missed out on
        Lynnette if you are able to cost reset to 6/5/5/4 then go with that
        And I forgot about cost recovery lance which is a great option

      • LaconicLeaf
        LaconicLeaf commented
        Editing a comment
        And adding to that...

        Lynnette It should be possible to cost reset a bit, just take off a few monsters. You'd typically want 1 or 2 utility monsters in quests anyways. Fiine and Kagutsuchi are perfect fits; the former also does the same things Siren (Purifying Light) and Shina (Heal, Purifying Light) does too. Then the last 2 slots can be V&L as a stat stick, and Apollo as another stat stick before adding the 'Mins.

      • AsuraPhoenix
        AsuraPhoenix commented
        Editing a comment
        The sub traits don't even put a dent in your gs loll. It's best not to base your build around it.

      #5
      Hello all! Ty for the answers....
      Unfortunately i have all those helm/hats cause i don't have any other armor to add....tried to do spawn but nothing...only those 3.... so it would be useless now to reset cost to add in armors....

      For weapons, i don't have enough medal for the cost recovery one, but is my plan to take it in the future events.....the second and the third weap have the skill that burst pierce/sting/savage sting. then the fourth is for Knights Blitz, then a Phisical Testament and the last one is the only that have skill that i don't need (boost Break Thrust), but is really big in terms of statistics, that why i'm keeping it....

      For GvG i'm usually a front line lancer (not on crystal), Kfc is in GvG set is because i don't have any other monster that fill the remain cost.....i'm almost lvl 100 so with the cost fot that mission i can equip another 30 cost monster but i have been lucky only with another copy of Alice (trying to farming medals for Apollo's gear but only gold -_-)....and V&R will help me boost my attack a bit....

      For Mission, i will replace MR with EE then.... and you think i should replace Knight's Blitz too? For the monsters, i have V&R for the same as up, boost in attack... i know Renball is useless, but with 13 cost i can' equip anything else.... only 1 Firemin/Lightmin/ecc....is enough? And for Kirin i should replace Shina then, so i can take my defense "high"?

      PS For images, i didn't post it, my original post was with link to the page with the image... the MOD kindly edit my post for the images

      Comment


        #6
        You have enough on monsters. Don't add more. You do NOT need 6 monsters, contrary to what people will tell you. Lancers are single, high AP attacks. According to the damage formula, stats do NOT help you very much. By stacking one more Apollo and not one more armor, you become a lot more squishy with one less proc and gain like 1,800 damage to your attacks....that's not worth it.
        IGN: CS || Ace

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        • Lynnette
          Lynnette commented
          Editing a comment
          Ok then, i will add next costs on armor..... but you think i should replace Shina for Kirin or maybe Siren for Kirin?

        #7
        You're already well into the defensive hybrid route so just get enough cost to have 5 armors now and you're basically good. I'd recommend one or two magic armors to help your magic defense stat though.
        For your GB set I would take out alice for an apollo/nidhogg. The magic attack stat of alice isn't helping you at all.
        After that, just start farming pluses and infuse your gear.
        Question everything. ID: 2078755433

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        • Lynnette
          Lynnette commented
          Editing a comment
          I only have Avsaris and Nyx armors other then the ones equipped (really unlucky with armors :/ )..... i should wait for some spawn of defensive gear... and i will try to UR nidhogg...

        • Vostera
          Vostera commented
          Editing a comment
          Im unlucky with armor & helms too Lol just save gems for a good defensive gear spawn and hope fr the best

        #8
        Originally posted by Lynnette View Post
        Hello all! Ty for the answers....
        Unfortunately i have all those helm/hats cause i don't have any other armor to add....tried to do spawn but nothing...only those 3.... so it would be useless now to reset cost to add in armors....

        For weapons, i don't have enough medal for the cost recovery one, but is my plan to take it in the future events.....the second and the third weap have the skill that burst pierce/sting/savage sting. then the fourth is for Knights Blitz, then a Phisical Testament and the last one is the only that have skill that i don't need (boost Break Thrust), but is really big in terms of statistics, that why i'm keeping it....

        For GvG i'm usually a front line lancer (not on crystal), Kfc is in GvG set is because i don't have any other monster that fill the remain cost.....i'm almost lvl 100 so with the cost fot that mission i can equip another 30 cost monster but i have been lucky only with another copy of Alice (trying to farming medals for Apollo's gear but only gold -_-)....and V&R will help me boost my attack a bit....

        For Mission, i will replace MR with EE then.... and you think i should replace Knight's Blitz too? For the monsters, i have V&R for the same as up, boost in attack... i know Renball is useless, but with 13 cost i can' equip anything else.... only 1 Firemin/Lightmin/ecc....is enough? And for Kirin i should replace Shina then, so i can take my defense "high"?

        PS For images, i didn't post it, my original post was with link to the page with the image... the MOD kindly edit my post for the images
        Wait for Defense Spawns. They give you at least 1 guaranteed SSR Helm/Armor gear if you do the 10 spawn, up to a 3x limit, iirc.

        Cost Recovery from Colo will do well for replacing that Break Thrust Lance. Break Thrust isn't bad, but in PvE there's a ton of better options. Its strengths start to show when it's used in GvG, since even a Cleric with 12 Defense procs will still have a sizable chunk ripped off their life bar (you can also take advantage of how they have the 2nd lowest base HP in the game too). While you're at it, feel free to farm for the Lances from the Apollo and Alice events. Free Physical Testiment XL procs are always a good thing, considering they are only found in SSR-base Lances (and Swords), and are great for GvG to supplement Break Thrust and Double Sting. Unfortunately, the Apollo and Alice Lances require Orbs for reforge mats, but they can replace the Heart of the Blitz Scythe you have.

        Probably better to replace Alice for Fiine. Some guilds make Lilith/Nyx a part of their strategy (rare, but they exist; sometimes if a Cleric manages to heal off your team's attacks, they will use Lilith/Nyx alone), and using Fiine in response wipes the debuffs (blind, stat drops) and heals off the damage, too. At worst, Fiine would work as a stat stick for MDEF and ATK, but the MDEF is more useful than Alice's MATK.

        EE is extremely helpful for cost management. Wait for your Cost Recovery Lance and for more Armors/Helms to be able to use Attack Stance in place of Knight's Blitz. Once you're able to become more tanky, Attack Stance completely changes Lancer's PvE game. You would have to EE less often than any other class (just a few times in the start), and won't need to rely on haste.

        Speaking of cost resetting, wait until you have all your gear before committing.

        Replace Shina with Kirin. Since Shina has been out for longer, there's a higher chance of seeing others use her. In contrast, Kirin is fairly recent, so not many people would have him.

        As for what I said about focusing armors, I'll rephrase that. Just as long as the number of defense gear you have adds up to 10, like 4/6, 5/5, or 6/4 Helms/Armors by the time you hit Lv. 110, you should be ok. Focus your defensive procs more towards Anti-Magic skills. (Though I think you can go up to 11 defense gear after getting all the cost point bonuses from Reforge Main Missions and Sub Quests)

        An easy way to put in images is to use the Advanced Editor button, then paste the direct link of your image. Or use the BBCode [img]insert image link here[/img].


        IGN: FN || Leaf ID: 2042811095

        This Is How You DO Play Lancers

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        • Vostera
          Vostera commented
          Editing a comment
          Just curious but what are ya gonna do when 7th slot comes out? Where ya gonna put your cost?

        • LaconicLeaf
          LaconicLeaf commented
          Editing a comment
          Vostera There should be enough cost for a 7th weapon. Best option for Lancers since an extra proc helps close the gap between Testiments/CR and Heart of Spears in terms of procs. Also, a 7th weapon is a huge damage boost; a 0 infusion, +99 top Lance is about 7500 ATK, which is way more than what a single monster can give you. (Build by Lv. 120 would be 7/11/4)

          With the damage formula in mind, an Apollo gives you 1829 more damage. A weapon gives about 3000 more damage, so while a difference of 1171 damage is rather small, you also get another weapon proc chance on top of that which will greatly benefit any of your moves (especially for moves like Basic Attack, Double Sting, and Break Thrust). Then there's infusions to consider for weapons, boosting them above 7500 ATK.

          Also worth noting that Lancer passives give their Lances/Scythes 28% more ATK. Biggest class passive boost for them.
          Last edited by LaconicLeaf; 05-16-2016, 03:53 PM.

        #9
        Thank you again.....

        I have the Commodore's Hat and the Avsaris Armor that are already UR and that i can add....what you suggest i should equip? Armor or Hat?

        I'm farming Apollo and Alice, but not a single medal seems to wants to drop and i will sure wait next Colo to take the weapon.....in the mission set should i replace the Heart of the Blitz Scythe with the colo weap and keep the Break Thrust Lance ? and also in the GvG set?

        I already changed the Mass Refresh with EE....when i will have all the right weap, i will try using Attack Stance then....

        And one more think: it will be bad to replace Siren with Kirin? better have def then Matk i suppose....
        Last edited by Lynnette; 05-17-2016, 03:36 AM.

        Comment


          #10
          Originally posted by Ace View Post
          You have enough on monsters. Don't add more. You do NOT need 6 monsters, contrary to what people will tell you. Lancers are single, high AP attacks. According to the damage formula, stats do NOT help you very much. By stacking one more Apollo and not one more armor, you become a lot more squishy with one less proc and gain like 1,800 damage to your attacks....that's not worth it.
          I understand the benefits of having more defenses and procs, but I'm confused by the conclusion that you won't lose much damage by dropping two Apollos.

          Missing out on 2 Apollos should lose you about 9k atk.
          Adding two firemins = 1.25k atk, so let's say you lose 7.75k.
          I've seen some players with 80k in an attack stat, so let's use that as a baseline.

          With Apollo Blessing...
          6/x/x/6: 80k -> 88k
          6/x/x/4: 72.25k -> 79.475k

          Assuming ability power of 2.1 for a Knight's Blitz...

          Unbuffed
          88 * 0.39 * 2.1 = 72.1
          79.475 * 0.39 * 2.1 = 65.09
          ~7k damage difference
          10.7% damage increase

          Buffed and Crit
          88 * 1.8 * 0.39 * (2.1+1) = 191.51
          79.475 * 1.8 * 0.39 * (2.1+1) = 172.95
          ~18.56k damage difference
          10.7% damage increase

          And with +6 Elemental Bonuses
          88 * 1.8 * 1.3 * 0.39 * (2.1+1) = 248.95
          79.475 * 1.8 * 1.3 * 0.39 * (2.1+1) = 224.84
          ~24.11k damage difference
          10.7% damage increase

          Looks significant enough to me. Am I missing anything?
          Last edited by Mirabelle; 05-17-2016, 01:42 PM.
          IGN: Mirabelle | Guild: Too Nice
          UL ID: 2104891172

          Comment


          • Ace
            Ace commented
            Editing a comment
            Correct. That isn't significant when you put them into the context which they are being used. Consider how much HP monsters have in PVE and how much HP players have in PVP.

            Then, consider how much HP you have compared how much damage mitigation a proc gives.

            Stats are much more beneficial for multi AP moves like Lethal Strikes and Meteor. Single hits don't lose out on much nor gain much from raw stats.

          • Vostera
            Vostera commented
            Editing a comment
            Ace Wouldn't double sting benefit from more stats?

          • Ace
            Ace commented
            Editing a comment
            Vostera

            That is correct. Double sting is a great cost inefficient move to use. Lancers have a lot of opportunities to be cost efficient with basic attack, so if they find themselves with too much cost, double sting is a good alternative. With procs and attack stance, the AP bonus and break bonus (from Heart of the Sting) gets applied TWICE instead of once (which explains why normal attacks from lancers don't really need physical testament XL to do decent damage).
            Last edited by Ace; 05-18-2016, 06:21 AM.

          #11
          Save yourself the heartbreak and play any other class.

          Comment


          • HotMessExpress
            HotMessExpress commented
            Editing a comment
            Incorrect. A well built and well played lancer makes a significant difference in a party's damage. If you think about the dynamics and mechanics of lancer, it's easy to see how indispensable they are. My ideal pve party at the moment is me (cleric) plus either 4xMage or 3xMage and 1xLancer

          • Sachii
            Sachii commented
            Editing a comment
            HotMessExpress Please enlighten me on the dynamics and mechanics of lancer. I'm genuinely interested.

          #12
          I would, but I can't help but focus on the 23 stats left until 150K.
          IGN: Feyris
          Guild: St. Royal
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          • Lynnette
            Lynnette commented
            Editing a comment
            Don't worry, now i'm lvl 101 with 150331 gear score on PVE set XD

          #13
          So, here again for a question....
          I spawned a lance with Phisical Testament (25 cost at UR), so is worth to change the knight's blitz scythe for that new lance?

          Comment


          • AsuraPhoenix
            AsuraPhoenix commented
            Editing a comment
            For PvP, top level lancers use all physical testaments, in order to give every attack the highest chance of procing every hit (with Apollo blessing gears, each attack has 8 chances to proc). Procs make a significant difference in which side will control the battle. Besides, SSR-UR weapons give much higher stats than SR-UR weapons.

            For PvE, it is ideal to have all Heart of Spear weapons, and use all sting attacks, in order to break the monsters efficiently. But here's why I don't recommend it: As a damage dealing class, you would want to maximize the attack stats of your weapons. Meaning infusing any extra lances you have, and +99 the top slots. All bottom slot +'s and any extra top slot +'s would be used on your monsters/armors. And since PvP is a pretty big deal, I would use all these upgrades on all my physical testament lances, monsters, and armors. And since weapons of your class are hard to come by (unless you are a whale), and +'s take such a long time to collect, it will leave you no upgrades for you Heart of Spear lances. You may equip them, but your attack would drop significantly.

            Until you have fully infused and +99 all your lances (besides Apollo lance), +198 all your monsters, and +198 all your helms and armors, AND manage to collect 15+ Heart of Spear lances (so they can all be max infused), it is better to focus all your upgrades on your physical testament lances.

          • AsuraPhoenix
            AsuraPhoenix commented
            Editing a comment
            P.S. I hope you're not spending any ethers on your 24cost UR weapons loll

          • Lynnette
            Lynnette commented
            Editing a comment
            No ether used at all XD DON't worry.....

          #14
          Here again.... sorry XD
          Now that i have some more wepons, i'm asking to you if it's good to equip like this, in this order:

          - Heart of the Lancer (scythe from 50 legend medals, 27 cost)
          - Cost Recovery (Colo Scythe, 27 cost)
          - Heart of the Spear (24 cost, but fully infused)
          - Heart of the Spear (24 cost, but fully infused)
          - Physical Testament (25 cost, that i can infuse once if i have 1 Ether)
          - Physical Testament (27 cost, that i can infuse once if i have 1 Ether)

          Comment


          • Vostera
            Vostera commented
            Editing a comment
            AsuraPhoenix Idk, I just heard it a long time ago on the forum Lol

          • Lynnette
            Lynnette commented
            Editing a comment
            Guys, is it worth to use the 200 gold medals weapon?

          • AsuraPhoenix
            AsuraPhoenix commented
            Editing a comment
            Lynnette whether its worth or not depends on every player's situation. In your situation, the 29 cost rgb lance, with no infusion, would give you more attack than your fully infused 24 cost lance, AND give you a muchhhh better proc. Just a note though, in case you want to infuse the lance in the future, there only exist two other 29cost lance at the moment, both of which are impossibly hard to acquire.
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