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Guide - Archer 103 - The Science of Damage

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  • SciSensei
    started a topic Guide - Archer 103 - The Science of Damage

    Guide - Archer 103 - The Science of Damage

    Hello all,

    After three nights worth of work I've created my most extensive guide to date. I saw that the archer guide hasn't changed in a while so I took up the large goal of trying to update and revamp it. After receiving the okay from [King] Sonder, the last person to make an archer guide, I have created a guide that I hope the community can make great use of. As per usual, I made a tl;dr at the end and hope you guys give it a read and tell me what you guys think.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...t?usp=drivesdk

    Please leave any comments, questions, and corrections in the post or hit me up on the forums or in game with a pm. Good luck and do some damage!
    Last edited by SciSensei; 11-13-2017, 04:53 AM.

  • SciSensei
    replied
    Current Guide and ALL previous guides have been updated to new information, I'll update again on the next big patch or if errors are found. 3/31/18!

    Leave a comment:


  • SciSensei
    commented on 's reply
    Harukage Probably 2 - 3 weeks, need some time, and want a bit of testing. Though I have some numbers, not complete.

  • Harukage
    replied
    Hey SciSensei, when could we expect to see this guide updated in light of the newest gear? I know that life is pretty busy for you at the moment, but I'm sure the community would appreciate anything you could put out on the subject. There's no one quite like you and LaconicLeaf when it comes to giving us detailed guides.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlueDragonSonder
    commented on 's reply
    No problem my friend! I glad that my guide helped you a bit ^^

  • SciSensei
    commented on 's reply
    [King] Sonder

    Thanks for checking it out, and your guide was solid; it had a good number of points that were useful for consideration. I'll try my best to keep up the guide!

  • BlueDragonSonder
    replied
    Thanks for stepping forth and make this guide! Me, was a Ex-Guide Archer (And probaly a trash one) wanted to say Thanks to you! Good luck mate!

    Leave a comment:


  • SciSensei
    commented on 's reply
    Kalannar97

    It's okay not to have both Damage XL bows, just pretend that you intentionally took the -7 AP for increased at-least-1 Proc Chance. Though it may not be better on average, since you have good luck you went this route ;D

    With that said, looking at your bows, with the Almighty Seal and three XXL bows, your at-least-1 proc rate is already at a solid 64.2%. Since you will use your Assassin's Bow for Mirage (It has great use and versatility in both PvE and PvP), your at-least-1 proc rate goes up 69.6%. Since you will use the Fluent Bow and Damage UP XL bows, yout have 1 more slot for your 8th bow.

    The question is, Do you want more consistency with an extra FT bow? Or do you prefer the (exceedingly small) chance to get a useful Double Proc? With another Fatal XL your at-least-1 proc chance goes up to 74.1%, while with the Shooter Testament turns your at-least proc rate to 71.1%. I could see the argument go either way; in essence the question is do you think a 3% increase in consistency is worth a well below 0.75% increased (can't give you an exact number since double proc rates are complicated and the full equation is still unknown) chance to make a double proc matter.

    In summary, 7 of the 8 bows you will be using are Almighty Seal (main), Assassin's Bow (mirage), 2 Fatal XXL bows, Fluent bow, Damage Up bow. With your choice on another Fatal XL or Shooter Testament. It's really your choice and whether or not you feel lucky ;D

  • SciSensei
    commented on 's reply
    LaconicLeaf I hope you enjoyed it, seeing a Straight Shot is like seeing a Dragon Assault, except Dragon Assault is even higher cost and straight shot just lingers there for a few extra seconds. Most of the ordeal weapons, like you have said in your guide, are pretty bad: Straight Shot, Dragon Assault, and Prayer are all sad times, at least Wizard's strike and Intrepid have their use/niche,.

  • Kalannar97
    commented on 's reply
    SciSensei

    What I usually run is:

    Almighty Seal XL - main, Fluent, Shooter XL, 2x or 3x Fatal XXL, the rest fatal XL with replacement ability options.

    Bow of Halloween, Chocolatier's bow (never use Sniping Sense) Assassin's Bow

    My Fatal XXL bows are 2x Miku and 1 fully infused Bow of Bryhildr

    I have a fully infused (sad, I know) Ebon Bow damage up XL that I don't use much right now and no other attack up bows.

    Everything else I have is fatal XL except for the shooter test L from UO.

    I do have 1 30 cost Assault Mastery (Waltz) but I haven't even started to augment it yet.
    Last edited by Kalannar97; 11-15-2017, 12:08 PM.

  • LaconicLeaf
    replied
    One thing that stands out for me,

    Originally posted by SciSensei View Post
    Q/C:“But SciSensei, I MUST HAVE A UNIQUE ATTACK REPLACEMENT ABILITY! STRAIGHT SHOT >>>BASIC ATTACK!!!1!!111!”
    DRAGON ASSAULT -- I MEAN STRAIGHT SHOT SUCKS


    *death glare*

    Leave a comment:


  • SciSensei
    commented on 's reply
    Kalannar97 Thanks for reading the guide.

    Looking at your bows specifically, though Mithra's are indeed better in main and Athena still works well in Sub, I'd still use the Athena in mainslot due to how powerful it's proc is. Other people may disagree, and as long as they have a valid reason, that's cool by me, given your bows though, I'd mainslot that sucker.

    Before I can give you advice on whether you should put Mithra in sub or whether or not to infuse, the one thing I need to know is how many proc weapon are you currently running. Depending on the % chance of proc'ing and getting something good, it will affect my decision on whether or not the 5% sub is okay and possibly useful.

  • SciSensei
    commented on 's reply
    Mosaic
    1. True, but was just trying to point things out, at the end of the day even as a great support Archers are the star of the show there, poor mages (maybe 6th ring will be nicer to you)

    2. Yeah, made a mistype of verbiage, generally means wordiness, which I definitely am guilty of, and I guess phrasing would have been the more correct term. I put the Lamia's as reference to my Monster Guide.; which was referencing reoccurring events that happen at a consistent basis. You said future events, but I'm unsure which ones, I know that the bride event is currently occurring but I'm unsure how often her event would occur so I'm currently sticking with the safe Ordeal/United Offense Monsters, which I did reference, especially in my Monster Guide post. Thanks again for the concern, and I'll keep updating the list as necessary.

    3. Cool beans. Added already, check out the validity for errors please ; didn't see any guide specifically reference it so I added it with my usual blurb.

    4. Yeah, I wrote about that and fixed as necessary, seems good to me thus far unless you feel I need to make more changes.

    5. Updated score though still can be debated. I'd argue on the point that Basic Attack isn't inefficient considering even with a single CDR Athena Boost, You could run both DA and AoS and still have time for Attack for some bonus damage, gaining cost, without interrupting your Attack cycle.I find your points on Purifying Wind valid, but with that said I still think Basic attack is a nice skill and still does what it needs to do. As a F2P I don't have any Planetary, though my cost upkeep is still fine enough without it (though it still could be better). Also, don't really want to use up a bow slot for the Mech Bow. I do see your points though, and have increased the score on PW (subject to change, especially if they add even more debuffs).

    6. Cool beans, thanks again for the reminder.

    7. I agree it is indeed nicer on the Armor slots, though that stuff is definitely harder to get. Like we both agree, Damage Up Bows are nice if a person is only running Fatals, but unless running 20% subslot bows I don;t think even with double procs the numbers add up to the Damage Up increase. My math could be wrong though, so I shall wait to see how the numbers pan out.

    8. I don't disagree, I personally use it as well, and I agree with the mentality a dead archer has 0 dps. Its just with the right RNG, and the correct armor sets, some people like having the chance to instant reflect kill 3 archers if they HB Mirror Guard and get a proc on themselves. I personally also enjoy guard but I'm not restricting people to have fun with hilarious builds.

    9. I already made the changes to FL archer and agree with the viability (and it definitely is the better FL set). I was just pointing out my love for damage as a mini joke to my points throughout the guide. I prefer the full damage Archer for BL/PvE though obviously, since FL archer is not as common-which was also stated. I wrote a full guide explaining to people why procs are far greater than stats and linked it as well so definite agree, tell me if you can live with the FL Archer section I fixed earlier today.

    10. I never brought up transmutations throughout the guide, you think I should? I don't have all the numbers for that but I'm sure I can look it up and compile something if people feel it is relevant.

    11. Checked the math again and checked with Nemu, if 2nd proc worked the way single proc worked my math would definitely be correct, but due to hidden math (that I might start investigating) it doesn't work out that way in reality. Seems like I got some testing to do and even then there are other factors at play for Double Procs, if anything though the numbers on double procs is drastically lower than expected, as such it could even give more credence to the earlier point on Damage XL having more value than non 20% sub bows. MATH needs to be done~!

    Thanks for the comments, hope to see the follow up soon!

  • Kalannar97
    commented on 's reply
    Thank you. I will look into doing that.

  • Einescii
    commented on 's reply
    As the guide says, mainslot the Mithra bow. At subslot its rates are much lower compared to the other procs you have. The Athena and FT XL/XXL procs can proc enough at subslot.

    I would keep the Miku XXL dupe as infusion material for some other high-cost bow if I were you. Use it to infuse the Athena bow if you don't already have it fully-infused
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