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Guide - Archer 103 - The Science of Damage

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  • Kalannar97
    replied
    Thank you for making such an awesome guide. I started as a mage and switched to archer in the last 6 months.

    I have a question with bows. I have 1 Athena, 1 Mithra, 2 Miku XXL, 1 Valk XXL, Halloween, Candy bow, and several other Fatal XL bows. I know that the Athena should be main but should I keep using the Mithra bow in a sub slot or infuse the 2 Miku bows?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mosaic
    replied
    Replying here as the comment box is hard for me to read:

    1. I know that high end PvE is based off elemental defense, with that said, if I don't give mages a reason for existing, who will? (I would definitely like a specialty that mages currently do that is amazing)

    >Your job is not to validate mages, it is to make an archer guide. They are glorious CB supports on a side note.

    2. I tried to make the monster suggestions as general as possible. That's why I listed monsters based on categories to hopefully not get outdated too quickly. If that is unclear, maybe I'll re-read and check my verbage if I made an error; if you are referring to my F2P choices though I will add and update as necessary. I feel that the F2P area is easier to adapt to and a quick under 30 minute fix/write-up. With that said, I could be wrong but I'll try to keep things up to date there; thanks for your concern and please do tell me if my verbage of catagories is unclear and require a slight rewrite.

    [Verbage is not a word. Verbiage would be the closest, but then it only refers to excessively technical phrasing outside of lay terms: Your guide is not this.]

    You specifically suggested multiple Luxavians in a visual display. I'm suggesting the addition of a listing of other monsters that would be helpful. These would include reoccurring events such as those I mentioned.

    3.Stat Buffs are indeed under-emphasized, so maybe I'll add a section for that or link to an existing guide while giving specific tips for archers. Thanks for that, I'll work on it soon.

    Chill stuff bro.

    4. True, It seems dumb of me to think of the individual when talking about GUILD Battles; I'll be sure to include that.

    It depends on strategy. Ether exchange often takes up a slot for more viable abilities unless you plan on soloing the enemy FL.

    5. I've heard mixed cases on Purifying Wind, but that point seems valid enough to grant it higher numbers, not sure about a 4/5 since that would imply I'd generally take it over basic attack, maybe a 3, we'll test the crowd and see how they feel.

    You should take it over basic attack. Run a planetary that gives Elevate [EX. I use Tellus] and you will never run out of cost. Basic attack is at best later on used as an inefficient cost gain.

    6. Forgot to add that bit about Shooter Testament, thanks for the reminder.

    Chill stuff bro.

    7. Not sure how I feel about damage up only on Armors, the average proc rate increase is not that great with a 6th/7th bow comparative to the constant Damage XL increases, even with double procs, except when talking about 20% sub slots, where the 7th weapon does overcome it; and I did include that tidbit.

    Bow slots should not be used for constant skills unless you are double proccing every hit or it is a vast increase in damage [Fluent bow]. Currently this is not the case, even with 7th slot.

    7 Athena Weapons is roughly a double proc in 1/3 attacks. You have not yet reached the threshold where you should start replacing. I would only agree to bring a constant bow under the circumstance of an archer wearing 5 fatal bows.

    8. I personally use Guard for Colosseum and it does reduce Break Thrust/Rage Slash/Frenzy/etc Damage, so I think it could possibly warrant a must. I'll put it as a must and see how things change up over time.

    Guard reduces all damage taken by 50%. Bringing it to Colo makes it easier for any healer to save your life. It exhausts more of the enemy's cost in killing you. It also

    9. That FL archer cost allocation seems remarkably similar to some Offtanking Builds. Viable and works for multi-classes, granted it decreases DAMAGE and you know how much I like DAMAGE

    Damage doesn't matter if you're dead. You can viably sneak off with very little physical defense [#40k] in most content, but the procs in armor are what will save you. [Unless rage slash l o l] If you want, it's probably possible to go 8/12/6.

    10. 4th infuse is coming, but I'm unsure how to feel about that; does it really affect anything? (Please answer, other than more damage, I don't know what that means for me)

    It means you need to save any extra bows instead of transmuting.

    11. Btw, Dream Archer: I like that Defensive Set, I personally would go 7x Almighty Seals with Basic attack myself. I'd then equip DA/AoS/MR/Balancing since with Auto Attack and 7 seals my Bows give a 60.2% to double Proc, meaning every 4 seconds I get a mini EE; and over the CD of EE it essentially is equivalent to EE. I'll maybe add a section for "Ideal" Archer Set.

    You didn't do the probability right on this. Nemurerumori an fix it for you.

    Leave a comment:


  • SciSensei
    commented on 's reply
    Nemurerumori
    I know that, but I was wondering how that impacts my guide since I emphasize Damage as the priority, doesn't that mean my guide is in the right direction? Thanks for clarifying that for me though.

  • Nemurerumori
    commented on 's reply
    The important factor about 4th infusion slot is that it will further skew the offense:defense ratio for majority of players in favor of offense, since people place a high priority on increasing damage.

    This means that multi-hits like Archer and Mage will punch over the flat defense reductions by a good margin even more.

    To put things into perspective, Archer was considered pretty underpowered until the Alice event came (Quetzelcoatl & Shinatobe were the only wind mons at the time), so archers were finally capable of fleshing out their ATK/MATK spreads and slingshotted to DPS. Back then, the offense:defense ratio was leaning far to the right and procs were far less dependable due to 5slot.

  • SciSensei
    commented on 's reply
    HotMessExpress In my intro when I was trying to explain to people what classes are options and why you should play them, I couldn't think of anything better to say about why one would pick Mage over archer. Still feeling unsure of why, but thanks for your help

  • SciSensei
    commented on 's reply
    Hello turnipbutt
    It depends on the scenario. If for GvG none of your fellow BL has access to mirage, I'd go Halloween Surprise since it doesn't stack with WoC, if they all have Mirage then go Mirage since you guys can drop a WoC this way.

    If you are FL, Mirage and Sakura Tuning are both nice granted Mirage holds an advantage since it has higher AP which is important for PvP.

    For PvE content, I personally think it depends on Playstyle/what you want your slot to do.
    If you an attack replacement, Sakura Tuning.
    If you want to do more Damage for your main skills Halloween Surprise.
    If you want more damage on main skills but would like to kill off weak things while doing it? Mirage.

    Many archers like Mirage, which I think is a real nice choice if you have the normal DPS archer build. I personally like having my attack be a mini EE, as such I personally use basic auto attack.

  • Savatar
    commented on 's reply
    I’d say either Sakura tuning or mirage but I prefer mirage

  • turnipbutt
    replied
    So if you had to choose between Sakura Tuning, Mirage, and Christmas/Halloween Surprise, which would it be?

    Leave a comment:


  • HotMessExpress
    commented on 's reply
    If we're strictly talking ''optimal'' then mage has a strong claim to at least one slot on a crystal breaking team in pvp. In pve they get free elemental bonuses and don't struggle as much against high defense targets (depending on build). The free hp from absorption moves is nice if pve content is easy enough to tackle without a cleric, but it pales next to the damage received in high end content.

    Though I don't know what that has to do with archer

  • SciSensei
    commented on 's reply
    Mosaic
    I am truly sorry about the mix-up, I was not around when you were playing and I think I assumed you were male due to a screenshot either of your character or CPU, regardless that is 100% my fault for not doing better research and I truly apologize. Also, I 100% thought you retired since whenever I saw your signature it said retire/sold so I did not know I could contact you. Welcome back and I hope you enjoy your stay. With that said, let's take a look at your considerations.

    1. I know that high end PvE is based off elemental defense, with that said, if I don't give mages a reason for existing, who will? (I would definitely like a specialty that mages currently do that is amazing)
    2. I tried to make the monster suggestions as general as possible. That's why I listed monsters based on categories to hopefully not get outdated too quickly. If that is unclear, maybe I'll re-read and check my verbage if I made an error; if you are referring to my F2P choices though I will add and update as necessary. I feel that the F2P area is easier to adapt to and a quick under 30 minute fix/write-up. With that said, I could be wrong but I'll try to keep things up to date there; thanks for your concern and please do tell me if my verbage of catagories is unclear and require a slight rewrite.
    3.Stat Buffs are indeed under-emphasized, so maybe I'll add a section for that or link to an existing guide while giving specific tips for archers. Thanks for that, I'll work on it soon.
    4. True, It seems dumb of me to think of the individual when talking about GUILD Battles; I'll be sure to include that.
    5. I've heard mixed cases on Purifying Wind, but that point seems valid enough to grant it higher numbers, not sure about a 4/5 since that would imply I'd generally take it over basic attack, maybe a 3, we'll test the crowd and see how they feel.
    6. Forgot to add that bit about Shooter Testament, thanks for the reminder.
    7. Not sure how I feel about damage up only on Armors, the average proc rate increase is not that great with a 6th/7th bow comparative to the constant Damage XL increases, even with double procs, except when talking about 20% sub slots, where the 7th weapon does overcome it; and I did include that tidbit.
    8. I personally use Guard for Colosseum and it does reduce Break Thrust/Rage Slash/Frenzy/etc Damage, so I think it could possibly warrant a must. I'll put it as a must and see how things change up over time.
    9. That FL archer cost allocation seems remarkably similar to some Offtanking Builds. Viable and works for multi-classes, granted it decreases DAMAGE and you know how much I like DAMAGE
    10. 4th infuse is coming, but I'm unsure how to feel about that; does it really affect anything? (Please answer, other than more damage, I don't know what that means for me)
    11. Btw, Dream Archer: I like that Defensive Set, I personally would go 7x Almighty Seals with Basic attack myself. I'd then equip DA/AoS/MR/Balancing since with Auto Attack and 7 seals my Bows give a 60.2% to double Proc, meaning every 4 seconds I get a mini EE; and over the CD of EE it essentially is equivalent to EE. I'll maybe add a section for "Ideal" Archer Set.

    With that said, I am sadly busy tonight, but will update with those considerations in mind tomorrow. Please respond back about my thoughts and after I update it (you will see it by this time tomorrow). Thanks for the help, great to hear the advice, and can I take this as your "okay" on making the Guide. Welcome back and it was a pleasure speaking with you. I hope to hear from you soon and in the future.

  • Revolution
    commented on 's reply
    It's fixed! Np np

  • SciSensei
    commented on 's reply
    Hello Andromeda
    I know your concerns for F2P Players and greatly appreciate it (as a F2P myself). I'm a 350k+ (depending on what I want to wear) and I will have to say a few things regarding what you are saying.

    1a. You are 100% correct in saying Alice is the easiest to get F2P monster, and is actually the one I was using multiple fully infused version of. I used her over Flora because though I lost a bit of damage, I knew eventually other monsters would scale, was hoping for a Lamia like monster to come out, and I really didn't want to farm 18 orbs per Flora (though I was definitely considering that option).
    1b. As a F2P, I'll tell you now, a full week to get 1~3 fully unlocked Lamias isn't that hard and I would say is worth gemming for as a F2P player. Gemming cards is 3 gems, if you get 1 (if you are lucky 2) Lamia(s) in the card phase you can just think about it as a 15 gem investment. 15 gems (Is 5 total Lamia) + a little farming = One 4/5 unlocked monster that gives the most ATK/MATK barring special events/gemmed monsters. You repeat this cycle twice so far and now you have a full set of Lamias. You don't even have to run the 40 AP, if you run the 25 you are more likely to get 3 stars which gives (nearly) equivalent card options as a 2 star 45 AP run. This means, a max Level archer could run 21 runs a day, over 150 runs throughout a week, and just invest 15 gems per 5 Lamias. Bonus: Often times the 9 card gemming will also help with the required materials. You will get your Lamias within a reasonable and cheap timeframe, I'd argue 15 gems for a Base (no +'s) 6622 ATK/MATK (not including the free 1000MDEF) is worth it any day; Especially considering the super difficult 35 cost monsters (8 more cost, wins GB, and has by far the most cost efficient stat- excluding hidden potentials) are only 6396/6396 in stats and require luck to get the stats you are hoping for. A regular Monster like Behemoth still requires 30 gems to get, with half of those gems you instead get the ridiculous stat stick that is Lamia.

    2. I understand your thoughts on Mastery Bows, but I think the only bow that has been useful for 2 years now is the Healing Mastery. 5th Ring has been out for just over a year or so; So I'm not sure which mastery bow you are referring to but Conviction/Mastery Bows have only been nice for the past year; and even then I would argue only the Conviction Bow and Opportune Mastery (DA) are going to be used for a majority of the builds. I feel QW is now situational with the arrival of ToJ, and I in good conscience would not allow myself to recommend weapons that eventually become useless (even if it does take 1 year+).

    3. I made a guide on monsters and I posted that a F2P only at minimum requires 1 utility. I said that whales can bring 3-5 Utility, but 3 is a good number, and I'd personally settle for 2 myself. I understand how you feel about PUGs because they can indeed be highly unreliable, but I'd argue that most whales could get away with a resurrection ability and a planetary as their 2 utilities; and if one is especially scared maybe a full PL/MR/Balance combination. Planetaries already give you some bonus, haste, and a broken passive, which accounts for cost recovery and ensuring game-changing monsters can be used; while Resurrection by itself is insanely powerful. If you brought MR on your bar and have a balance+PL monster as a utility, you'd be 100% set.

    4. Thanks, I also like Google Docs since it allows me to edit my work if I get something wrong or have typos, which can happen even though I re-read my material before posting it.

    5. No problem, I enjoy doing math for people.

    Thanks for the read, I love that you took the time to address points that you felt were misleading to people. At minimum it shows me that you care about the F2P community and read my 30 page guide; which I truly, TRULY appreciate. It's players like you that make the UL community great and are part of the reason I make guides in the first place. It helps decrease misconceptions (both ways), it allows the player base to learn more information, and it is a great place to discourse differing ideals or mentalities. Thanks again Andromeda , I hope to hear from you soon so I can hear your thoughts on my point.

  • Mosaic
    replied
    Unfortunately, I'm female.
    I would like to make some mild corrections to your piece. Feel free to discuss.
    Regarding your statement : "the ability to slightly live more in PvE, Mages are better since they can vamp". This is not true as high end PVE content is currently balanced around the idea of elemental defense. "Vamping" as you put it, has little to no effect on taking 90k to the face every other hit.
    In terms of monster suggestions, keep an eye out for future awakenings. Try to keep in touch with future events so you don't splurge on stuff that'll soon get outdated.
    Also, stat buffs are under-emphasized in your section. Flat stat buffs are possibly the most buff in the game, barring 8-stack Elemental.
    Mirage needs a 5/5 as if an entire CB carries it, you can eliminate an entire WOC and carry two Weaken Resolve.
    Purifying wind is useful, give it at least 4/5 PVE. It can instantly cure a Karma and the fact is PL / Heroic Spirit will not always be available. In PVP it is good for FL.
    Shooter’s defense reduction doesn't work on crystal, only the AP increase does.
    Dmg Up should go on armors only when possible. Unless you run full fatals, you should NEVER waste a bow slot on something like dmg up. You want to proc every hit, and throwing away two slots for a measly +14(?) ap up is less than optimal.
    Guard must be brought in Colo as an Archer, no excuses.
    FL archer should gear 8/13/5 and should just use trumpets instead if needed.
    Also, keep in mind 4th slot infuse is coming

    I'll just fix this as well:
    I can present you the Dream Archer (for PVE) [For PvP it’ll be different]
    Offensive Gears: 1 Fluent Bow, 5x Almighty Seals, 2x Flight Testament [Mirage skill replacer as one of them]
    Defensive Gears: 1 Null Physical Damage Main, 2x DMG Up Constant, 2x Planetary Constant Rest Damage Down XL (All)


    Leave a comment:


  • SciSensei
    commented on 's reply
    Bevgebra
    Glad that you liked it. It's nice to always have you reading and posting about your thoughts for my Guides. Thanks for the compliments and support.

  • Savatar
    commented on 's reply
    Are you sure? My 340k f2p friend has 5 almost fully infused Lamia without spending any gems but I’m a whale and personally I think your bringing way too much utility there is a point to where utility becomes too much you should only need 3-4 really planetary ofc, karma, kismet, res, and refresh heal mons is unnecessary if it does not come as a bonus on mons don’t bother for ex petit Luka came with karma but as bonus also had a heal honestly most of the time you prob just going to use planetary so unless these kismet and karma are your stats or scroll mons that are your stats most of the time you will only need one but even then you will never need all of them I myself usually only use 2 monsters per event even when I bring about 4 utility
    Last edited by Savatar; 11-14-2017, 09:18 AM.
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