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Guide: Defensive Gears and How they Interact

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  • Guide: Defensive Gears and How they Interact

    Hello UL people,

    MASSIVE UPDATE 12/5/17

    Reason: The Calculation Equation I previously used was incorrect, after hours of Internal Testing I have come to a pretty solid Conclusion on the defensive section of the Damage Formula, and have thus updated the guide.

    I apologize for the mistake I previously made, I will continue to keep testing values as I progress forward to decrease the odds of this happening again. This guide is a Defensive Gear/Interaction/Infusion Guide that has compiled information together in one location so people can gear efficiently. I have a tl;dr at the end for those who are lazy. Please feel free to comment, add suggestions, or pm me with questions/corrections I need to make.

    I even added an updated cheat sheet for people estimating single proc odds. With this said, I hope this helps some of the common questions people have, if they find the post that is.

    Hope I could be helpful, good luck spawning people.
    Hello UL community, I’m SciSensei, after making my original defensive guide, I noticed some needs in the community and made some new guides, tested more information, and have had people reach out to me. I started receiving new questions on defensive gears and more importantly I got some new in...
    Last edited by SciSensei; 12-05-2017, 04:46 AM. Reason: Massive Changes 12/5/17
    Good Luck out there people!
    Guides have transferred ownership!
    Cost Allocation/F2P/Mini Class Guides 101
    Archer 103 - Learn how to Damage
    Defensive Gear Lesson 102
    Monster Usage Lesson 101

    SciSensei ID: 2119936976

  • #2
    Welcome to the forums, SciSensei!
    Last edited by [MOD] Kier; 10-30-2017, 04:55 AM.

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    • SciSensei
      SciSensei commented
      Editing a comment
      I did get clearance by AteamAdmin beforehand, can you re-edit it back? I can send you a SS of the message if neccessary. Also, thanks for the welcome.
      Last edited by Finnalas Peril; 10-30-2017, 04:35 AM.

    • Finnalas Peril
      Finnalas Peril commented
      Editing a comment
      O snap kier 👀👀👀👀

    • [MOD] Kier
      [MOD] Kier commented
      Editing a comment
      SciSensei Oops! My bad. Kindly check my PM. I will fix this in a while. Thanks.

  • #3
    thanks for the guide! ^^

    Creds to each artist for the gorgeous art<3

    #TheBeamMafia

    Icons 101

    Comment


    • SciSensei
      SciSensei commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for checking it out. I checked out your guide as well, granted I feel it will take quite some time before I can make an Icon...considering it took me only 1.5 hours to write up the guide but 2 hours to figure out I needed to decrease the resolution and decrease the image size to 100x100 pixels for my avatar >_>

    • Bevgebra
      Bevgebra commented
      Editing a comment
      Haha, you'll get the hang of it! I'm always down to help with avatars if you need assistance d=(´▽`d=)

  • #4
    Hi Welcome to the forums,, Thank you for making a nice defensive gear guide !
    UL IDs:
    2009567509
    2106020375
    ~
    VC ID:
    971474228


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    • SciSensei
      SciSensei commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for making me feel welcome.

  • #5
    This is the best summary on defensive gear I have seen on the forum. Thanks so much for putting it together! Saved me tons of time. Now I need to correct the multiple mistakes I've been making in my defensive gear.

    Comment


    • SciSensei
      SciSensei commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks Sahara, luckily the gear fixes are easy since they are just damage downs, If you are a Mage/Cleric/Archer it can be obtained easily from Alice quest, if not gotta hope for some delicious RNG.

  • #6
    This is very thorough and I applaud your work, welcome to the forums! Good to have someone like you around, I hope you'll be staying for some time!!
    "After an eternity away from you all, Jack of Blades is back."



    The Phoenix Shall Rise From The Ashes.

    Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing,
    But In Rising Every Time We Fail

    Comment


    • muda
      muda commented
      Editing a comment
      It was in duel rooms, I wear multiple dual reflects so i see them double proc often to notice. I used to always use barrier + guard + constants and damage downs for 0's but now with all my double procs I can get 0's on MG which wasn't reliably possible before. I am certain it got 0 damage though, and still reflected 100% of the incoming damage.

      Edit: I was also wearing stellar god gear though, so I might need to test this again without. My belief is that they are both 35% damage reflection, which would be 70% + 30% MG
      Last edited by muda; 11-02-2017, 02:36 AM.

    • SciSensei
      SciSensei commented
      Editing a comment
      We can both do multiple individual tests this weekend since so far if no Barrier mitigation, it seems it shouldn't work. But we shall test!

    • SciSensei
      SciSensei commented
      Editing a comment
      Tested over the weekend, 11/5/17, Reflect XL, double proc, with Auto Reflect starters (x2) and Mirror Guard. I take 1 damage every time, no 0 damage procs, so the math still holds true. I hope you got similar results. I think the 0 damage was due to constant armor (as predicted). Please tell me if you got different results, we can compare variable if so.

  • #7
    So, no tests have been done with Damage Down XXL yet?


    Good guide btw.
    Monster I wish I had:

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    • Exifea
      Exifea commented
      Editing a comment
      Damage Down XXL is 45%

    • HomuRun
      HomuRun commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks.

      Also, I'll try to help whenever I can get one myself, but it sounds like getting two main Null Physical Damage could be better than having a Physical Damage Down XXL for certain classes.

    • HomuRun
      HomuRun commented
      Editing a comment
      SciSensei About the mathematics part, I'm actually very good at math, being a math minor. Not especially great in probability, but this type of mathematical problem is relevant to many games.

      To determine the total chance of proc from multiple gears combined, you have to determine the probability that at least one triggers. The complement of this is the probability that none of them trigger, which is easier to calculate. For two independent events with both 20% probabilities of happening (2 main damage down procs), the probability of them both not happening is (1-0.2) * (1-0.2) = 0.64. Taking the complement of this probability, it is 1-0.64=0.36, or a 36% chance of at least one of 2 damage down procs triggering.

      This kind of probability calculation is not a very straightforward concept to most, so I can see this table being very helpful to most players.

  • #8
    Also, are the omni-damage reduction constants (like on the stellar gear) the same as having one magic and one physical constant, or are their effects split in half?
    Monster I wish I had:

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    • Exifea
      Exifea commented
      Editing a comment
      The same. 10% to both damage types.

    • HomuRun
      HomuRun commented
      Editing a comment
      Cool

  • #9
    For Physical/Magic Reflection XXL, I did some testing in Duel Rooms with someone who had the latter proc. When I checked the damage reflected back, it was 40%, compared to the 35% which XL-sized Reflections have.

    Since the increase from Single Reflection XL to XXL is just a 5% increase in magnitude, it is logical for Single Damage Down XXLs to be 45% mitigation too. Although it's widely been believed that they are 50% mitigation, this was probably because raw defense stats were enough to make an attack that deals 10% of its damage become 0.

    As for Damage Reduction constants, they are basically a Physical AND Magic Armor Up XL combined, but they do noticeably cost much more, at 33 cost versus the 28 cost which the regular defense constants have at minimum.
    Last edited by LaconicLeaf; 11-01-2017, 02:25 AM.


    IGN: FN || Leaf ID: 2042811095

    This Is How You DO Play Lancers

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    • HotMessExpress
      HotMessExpress commented
      Editing a comment
      Yeah considering it's like two pieces of gear, proc-wise, the double constant is well worth the extra 5 cost

    • SciSensei
      SciSensei commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for the responses. I assumed that was the reason why a possible 0 happened, granted I still plan to test many mgs and a double proc reflect to verify that it does or does not go to zero. Also, would the proc rate of XXLs be close enough to XLs that I could just note their % of damage reduced but leave proc rate as the same?

    • HotMessExpress
      HotMessExpress commented
      Editing a comment
      The difference between them shouldn't be drastic, but I wouldn't assume numbers without checking. I've heard they proc more, but I've never confirmed. It makes sense that they should, since I believe most procs activate more often as they upgrade in ''size.''

      Reflect will bottom out damage at 1 if no barrier-mitigation is present. Presumably 0 is achieved at that point when any amount of barrier mitigation is added, so long as your defense is enough to reduce damage by 1 hp.

      It's too late for me to test it now thanks to the 3k stat shared traits, but I wonder if 100% mirror and a 10% barrier would give 1 damage to somebody who only had 2 def/mdef. Sometimes little corner cases like that can be illuminating when prodding at hidden math

  • #10
    So uh, what do you mean by "gearscore damage reduction"? You talking about base stats?
    ID: 2136016703
    Got the only waifu that counts (˵ ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°˵)ノ⌒♡*:・。.

    Comment


    • SciSensei
      SciSensei commented
      Editing a comment
      I'm going to need a little clarification, when I say the phrase gear score I am trying to make people think about their numbers, not the specific skills on the gear. So is the wording I am using not correct in this case or is it still confusing.

      Just to be clear, when I am saying gear score reduction I mean you look at your DEF, let's say 100,000, and because it is at 100,000 it reduces the damage by 20,000.

      I'll think about prefacing the definition though for sure, though I'm not too sure if I should too many * ** etc in since though there would be a legend, some people get confused by legends.

    • Cthulhu
      Cthulhu commented
      Editing a comment
      SciSensei your wording is not correct again when you say gear score they think of their big number and the rankings unless you clarify that you mean something else. I'd suggest saying 'your current base stats' you can throw in a picture example, if not give example.

    • SciSensei
      SciSensei commented
      Editing a comment
      Okay, I think I know what you're saying, I have added a small section to the guide, I hope it clears up any misunderstandings, thanks for being patient in explaining your message. I hope the changes I made were what you were expecting.

  • #11
    its still a little bit confusing since you keep referencing GS throughout the guide, might just be best if you just say base stats instead of GS

    Made by my Waifu XD
    My Id: 2032749700

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    • SciSensei
      SciSensei commented
      Editing a comment
      I see what you're saying but at the same time I dislike using the word base stats since the only base stat is HP. Mind clarifying where my Image/Definition does not help explain what I mean? If possible I would like to stray away from using &quot;base stats.&quot; but if it does cause enough confusion I will change it to suit the most amount of people. Thanks to you and Mrs. Knightheart by the way for putting time into reading and giving suggestions; it is much appreciated.

    • HotMessExpress
      HotMessExpress commented
      Editing a comment
      I generally specify defensive stats in these discussions as GS is taken to mean the sum total of all four, and attack stats aren't used for defense

    • SciSensei
      SciSensei commented
      Editing a comment
      True, but I included a screenshot, added a note, and vocabulary termed the word for the guide near the beginning. Regardless, I'm thinking of changing the term to &quot;defensive gear score&quot; or &quot;DEF/MDEF damage mitigation,&quot; does that sounds better, and if so, which term should be used?

  • #12
    Amazing guide
    IGN: Owl·City°SNC
    ID: 2001063906
    Healer main

    Comment


    • SciSensei
      SciSensei commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for taking the time to read it and I hope it was of use.

  • #13
    Thx for making me less squishy

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    • SciSensei
      SciSensei commented
      Editing a comment
      No problem, thanks for reading. Anything to help a squish.

      Note:You do realize AIM will be dead on December 15th right?

  • #14
    Welcome to our fun house Chu~Chu (train noise)

    Comment


    • SciSensei
      SciSensei commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for the welcome.

  • #15
    I spy with my little eye a Sci😀

    Comment


    • SciSensei
      SciSensei commented
      Editing a comment
      Hello there! Are you the Diana I know or a different Diana? Regardless thanks for welcoming me.

    • Princess Diana
      Princess Diana commented
      Editing a comment
      SciSensei yeah I'm the same one 🤗
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