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Lancer 101

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    Lancer 101

    Hello! Cobalt here. I have played Lancer since the very beginning of the game, and want to share my general experiences and advice for this class.

    Class Overview

    Lancer is a rather straighforward class. It is a solid and balanced class, which main purpose is to apply break. Break is a debuff that can be applied to enemies signified by a flashing yellow aura on the afflicted enemy. It lowers enemy defense, increasing damage done. Attacks done against a breaked enemy contributes to a break combo that goes up to 10. This prolongs the life span of the debuff, and offers an extra unison percentage boost, offering 1% for every hit, with a bonus 3% boost if a maximum combo of 10 is reached. Keep in mind that all attacks can apply break, but Lancer is the only class that can do this efficiently and reliably with its Pierce and Sting moves. Enemies have hidden break gauges, and all moves apply a certain amount of break points when it hits an enemy. The Lancer class is characterized by its balanced and well rounded "bruiser" nature. It is a decently tanky class that deals good damage. It has a quick, agile playstyle that is simple and easy to use. But it takes a lot of skill to be a good lancer that has perfect break timing. It is a class that does not have significant strengths but in return, has no significant weaknesses unlike other classes.

    Pros of Lancer

    + Second highest HP pool. Second most tanky class.
    + Least demanding gear requirements.
    + Simple, easy to use and non demanding skill costs.
    + Great class for beginners. Strong early game.
    + Fast attack animations.
    + Best anti class benefits.
    + Strongest offensive unison element.
    + Much better break bonuses than any other class.

    Cons of Lancer

    - Lowest damage potential.
    - Worst attack scaling.
    - Least useful monsters.
    - Lack of viable magic defense alternatives.
    - Least amount of utility.
    - Restricted skill set limited mainly to breaking.
    - Only class that has no reliable source of healing.
    - Benefits the least from weapon skills and damage buffs.
    - Single hit attacks only.
    - Starts to fall off in high level GvG.

    Class Abilities

    CE: Cost efficiency (Ability power to cost ratio). DPS: Damage per second (Ability power to cooldown ratio).

    *Note: All moves are calculated with passive bonuses and combo bonuses included. Consider any moves not included to be unviable.

    (Pierce CE: 14 DPS: 17.5) (Sting CE: 14.545 DPS: 17.77) (Savage Sting CE 14.166 DPS: 17)
    The sting moves are your bread and butter core moves for Lancer. These are your main damage dealers, and the moves you use to apply break. These are essential moves that you must use. I recommend using Pierce and Sting at all times. The last 2 skill slots can be used for extra damage or utlilty. I do not recommend using Savage Sting. A Sting + Savage Sting combo is less efficient than a Pierce + Sting combo. However Savage Sting offers much more break bonus that the other moves. But in my experience, Sting and Pierce do the job well enough. Due to the fact that break points are hidden values, I recommend relying more on damage efficiency over break efficiency. Using all three of these moves together is possible but not something I recommend against most enemies, but is certainly a good choice against very break resistant enemies like raid bosses. You should experiment yourself and consider how much break power you should bring. However if you have the Apollo's blessing equipped, it will actually have higher proc priority than your Sting skills, in this case use three Stings. Use three Stings if you are wearing the Apollo's Blessing set, but use two Knights Blitz, Pierce and Sting if you don't have it.

    (Thrust CE: 14 DPS: 14.55) (Sharp Thrust CE: 12.727 DPS: 14) (Dragon Thrust CE: 12.5 DPS: 13.636)
    These are alternative moves that have a chance of paralyzing the enemy instead of applying a bonus to break chance. These moves are not useful in PvE situations, since most tough bosses have huge resistances to paralysis. Because of this, its main purpose is completely nullified. However this is a good, viable move for PvP because enemy players are much more susceptible to status inflictions. DPS is more important in GvG however, so I do not recommend using this move in GvG. But in the long drawn out battles in Colloseum, paralyzing the enemy can give huge benefits to your team. I recommend using the basic Thrust only as a third damage option coupled along with Sting and Pierce. Its efficiency goes down dramatically with each higher level version without any improvements to its chance of paralysis.

    (Focus CE: 5) (Eagle Eye CE: 15)
    These moves boost your own crit chance. You can use this as a third skill option but personally I find that the crit damage doesnt offer enough bonus damage to justify the cost. If you ever do use this move, use the strongest version. It is a whopping three times more efficient than the weaker one. This also applies for all stat buffs. Always use the strongest version, because they are always much more cost efficient than the weaker types.

    (Soul of the Wolf CE: 4) (Soul of the Beserker CE: 6)
    These moves give damage boosts to your entire team. Again only use Soul of the Beserker. This is a situational move that is good for GvG. Outside of this, it is not very useful. These moves are eclipsed by the Marksman's (Wind of Courage CE: 8). It is better that you dont use these moves, and instead rely on a Marksman.

    (Break Thrust CE: 11.66 DPS: 14)
    Damage wise this is hands down the most inefficent move in the entire Lancer arsenal. It does have its situational uses, since it is the only move than can damage an enemy with a max level reflection. It is also more damage efficient if you have heavy attack debuffs. In general use, the situational niche this move has is not prevailent enough to justify using this move. It can be useful in Colloseum against Amaterasu and Generals. But due to the uncertainty of its niche, this move is quite a gamble to bring. There is a chance this move can be useful against an enemy that has heavy attack debuffs and/or reflects. But otherwise, do not use this move.

    (Double Sting CE: 12.22 DPS: 20)
    This is a tricky move. At first glance, it may seen like a terribly inefficent attack, but one huge difference this move has over the other moves is that it hits twice. This means, any extra damage buffs are twice as effective, but at the same time defensive stats will block twice as much damage. It does apply bonus to break, but it is less effective at it compared to the Pierce and Sting moves. Another disadvantage this weapon has is that it combos off of Savage Sting, the least efficient Sting move. Provided that you have max damage buffs in the form of elemental bonus damage, anti class passives, crit buffs, attack buffs and enemy defensive debuffs, it can be a very devestating move. Double Sting has the highest DPS rating of all moves, coupled with team buffs and anti class passives it can demolish in GvG. Double Sting has low base damage, but makes up for this by having ridiculously high damage per second and good attack scaling.

    (Knights Blitz CE: 14.66 DPS: 14.66) (Dragon Crush CE: 22.8 DPS: 14.25)
    These moves are characterized by very high damage efficiency at the cost of long cool downs, and the lack of utility. They are great moves to use, and either one of these skills is good as a third damage option. I would recommend not using Dragon Crush for anything other than PvP situations though. It may look like a good move on paper, but its extremely long cool down, and requirement of three enemies in a row in order to be used at maximum potential really makes this a hard to use and situational move. Because of this it doesnt really have enough chances to use in PvE scenarios.

    (Beserker Spirit)
    A tricky to use move. Its use relies entirely on crit buffs. Focus and Eagle Eye are not sustainable self buffs to use with Beserker Spirit, so the only choice is to rely on buff monsters like Taurus and Shinatobe, making it a very situational move. With a max crit buff though, this move is a very strong self buff that will massively increase your damage. Personally I dont think this move is worth the proficency to buy, but that doesnt mean it is not an unviable move.

    (Heavens Breath) (Balance) (Ether Exchange) (Cure)(Purifying Light)
    Besides the moves Lancer has, there are other passive buffs that can really benefit Lancer. Heavens Breath acts as the only viable self sustaining move a Lancer can bring. Balance is a great move to use against powerful bosses that apply self buffs. Ether exchange is a strong move that massively increases your damage output at the cost of health. Since Lancer has no self healing abilties, it is only useful in PvP scenarios and in premade teams with a dedicated healer. Using healing is generally not very effective on a Lancer. But if you have a utility pet with magic attack, and relatively high magic defense you can heal a decent amount of health comparable with Heavens Breath. Your ability to heal is entirely based on what you have available.

    (Attack Stance DMG BOOST: 20 AP DEFENSE LOSS: 25 AP)
    This is a unique move and a lot of elaboration is needed to explain not only why this is a good move, but also how to use it properly. This skill requires specific gear procs in order to use effectively. Mainly Apollo's Favor and Cost Recovery. See "Recommended Moveset" for more information.
    Last edited by Cobalt; 02-17-2016, 12:50 AM.
    No longer playing.

    Recommended Build

    The gear cost destribution of Lancer is pretty much identical to Archer and Mage. You want to max out your Weapon and Monster slots, and save the rest for your Helmets and Armor. A good cost destribution for a level 105 lancer would be:

    6 UR weapons, 4 UR helmets, 3 UR armor, 6 UR monsters.

    Since at level 120 a new slot will be available, save any future cost so you will have enough space to accommodate for the 7th weapon and armor slot, as well as the upcoming 34 cost monsters. Unless you can afford to relocate your cost.

    Lancer benefits from fire monsters and armor the most. This leads to Lancer naturally having more defense than magic defense. Ideally, you want to have armor with balanced defense and magic defense coupled with 2 magic down constant armors to try and boost your magic defense as high as possible without losing out on your defense passives.

    For weapons, you want to use your ranked weapon, and a mix of Physical Testament, Heart of the Spear, and Heart of the Blitz lances. One of the advantages of Lancer is that it is the only class thats core move set has not really changed since its advance class has been released. Because of this, Lancer benefits the most from its powerful ranked weapon. An ideal build will have 1 Heart of the Lancer, 2/3 Physical Testament and 2/3 Heart of the Spear lances. Heart of the Lancer is the ranked weapon proc, and it is the strongest proc available to the Lancer class. Heart of the Spear is another essential proc. It boosts damage more than a Physical Testament, and also massively increases the amount of bonus break points done. It does not guarantee a break, but it is an instant break on most enemies. Physical Testament is an all around useful proc. It is not as potent as the more specialized Heart procs but its biggest advantage is that it procs on all attacks. Because of this I recommend it over Heart of Blitz. Heart of Blitz does more damage, but since it only applies to one move it experiences limited use. Put your weapons with the most useful procs in the front, with your strongest weapon in your main slot. Weapons in the first slots have proc priority over the weapons in the last slots. In case you get more than 2 procs, this ensures the best procs override the weaker ones.

    For pets, I recommend having one of these combinations:
    5 fire monsters and 1 neutral monster.
    4 fire monsters, 1 water monster and 1 neutral monster.
    4 fire monsters, 1 utility monster of any element and 1 neutral monster.
    3 fire monsters, 1 water monster, 1 utility monster of any element and 1 neutral monster.

    Here is a look of my build as a Lancer for general questing.

    As you can see in my build above. The strongest skills are from rank weapons, therefore they belong at the very front of your weapon slots. I put my Heart lances in front of my Testament lances. This is because Heart skills are stronger than Testaments and should get higher skill priority. I put Magic Damage Down armor and helmets in my main slot because I have lower mdef then def. By putting Magic Damage Down armor in my main slot I get more defensive procs against magic attacks, this helps compensate for my lower mdef. I use three stings because the Apollo's Blessing set lowers the proc chance of my Heart of Pierce.

    Recommended Moveset

    The moves a lancer brings is pretty dependent on your ability to break. Generally, lancer is split into two different playstyles: A build with and without Apollo's Blessing. Apollo's Blessing gives a huge damage boost, but this also comes at the cost of your Heart of Spear proc frequency. This needs to be compensated for. For a standard, well built lancer without Apollo's Blessing, I would recommend using Knights Blitz, Pierce and Sting as your general attack set. The last slot can be used for utility. You can use moves like Heavens Breath, Ether Exchange, Balance, or Purifying Light. Focus on breaking the enemy, use Kights Blitz only as an extra damage option when you have extra cost to spare.

    Things get a little more tricky with Apollos' Blessing. With this set on you are required to use 3 Stings minimum. Though the damage boost Apollo's Blessing gives is very much worth the sacrifice. The last slot can be used for the same utility moves as before. But this set also opens up your basic attack as an efficient damage source. With this set, Attack Stance now becomes a useful damage buff and Cost Recovery becomes a much stronger skill. By the time you get Apollo's Blessing I assume you already have good defense so the defensive cut Attack Stance gives should be negligible. This playstyle requires a lot more cost management than normal though so let us break this down. The two Apollo's Favor procs you now have dramatically increase your proc chance. Your basic attack is twice as fast at half the cost your basic Pierce has. So not only does it have twice the proc chance, it also has twice as good scaling with Attack Stance. Suddenly your basic attack becomes much more cost effective than Knights Blitz could ever be. Couple this with Cost Recovery and now you have some of the best proc scaling in the game. The reason why this works so well is because procs happen to be flat damage increases. This also means that your basic attack is twice as ineffective against defense as well. So make sure you only use your basic attack only on a breaked target. Cost management is key though, when using Attack Stance you need to save your cost in order to keep the enemy breaked at all times, using your basic attack as a damage source is secondary. It takes practice to get the timing right. Keep in mind it takes approximately 5 seconds for a wave to transition in game, during this period your buffs still decay but your cooldowns freeze. Using your cooldowns to count how long your attack stance lasts is not accurate if you pass a wave with it active. You need to consider this when using your basic attack as well.

    Shoutout to vzReo for help in discovering the Attack Stance strategy.

    Procs for Lancer

    Heart of the Spear: Your basic, bread and butter proc. Have at least 3 to 4 of these procs at all time. It increases the damage of your Pierces and Stings, while also greatly increasing the break bonus damage you apply. In normal circumstances this guarantees that the enemy hit gets breaked. But against certain enemies like raid bosses this isnt the case.

    Secret of the Spear: Essentially the same thing as Heart of the Spear, except with the added bonus of also boosting Double Sting.

    Heart of the Lancer: The second strongest lancer skill. It has all of the basic Heart procs put together, it also has a slightly higher proc chance than the other heart procs. Its in every way better than the Heart of the Spear.

    Secret of the Lance: This is basically the same thing as the Heart of the Lancer, but also boosts the abilities of the Lancer's advanced moves. A direct upgrade, and the strongest lancer proc currently in the game.

    Heart of the Blitz: This move is stronger than a Physical Testament. But the downside is that it only procs for Knights Blitz, while a Testament procs for all moves. This means that it procs less than a Physical Testament, doing less damage overall. This makes this move inferior to a Physical Testament. If you dont have optimal lances in this game this works as a fine substitute however. If you do use it, put it infront of your Testament Lances.

    Apollo's Glory: This is the same as a normal Physical Testament XL, but an extra bonus to this is that it's stronger than the premium batch of 26 cost lances in stat ratios, but it does lose out in infusions. Even without the full set, consider it stronger than most Testament lances. The armor in the Apollo Blessing set however only has size L procs, as well as slightly weaker stats. So they are weaker than other premium UR armors by themselves.

    Apollo's Favor: This is the proc the Apollo armor uses. It is the same as Physical Testament L but has a higher proc frequency than a regular Testament.

    Physical Testament: Just a simple damage boost that works for all of the lances attacks. You cant go wrong with this move and its nice to have 2 to 3 of them at all times.

    Fatal Testament: This is actually a pretty good move for lancers. Though at the moment there arent any lances that use this proc. However, a UR Fatal bow can be a great weapon to use for a beginner lancer. A 25 cost UR bow with Fatal Testament is better than an 18 cost SSR lance. There is also a UR sword with this proc.

    Attack Up Constant: The constant damage boost is pretty neglible, you are better off using another lance than this really. You can only wear two constant procs at a time so its better used on Magic or Defense Up Constants.

    Cost Recovery: Not a bad move at all, it is quite useful due to Lancer's quick, low cost, low cooldown attacks. This gives a greater chance of more procs and a higher flat cost recovery chance than other classes that uses this proc. If you use a basic attack on an enemy that just died, theres a chance that this can proc, and give you free cost.

    Tips and Tricks

    Damage efficiency is very important. Plan your moves ahead in relation to your enemies next moves and your allies next moves.

    If a breaked enemy's combo chain is at max level, save your Sting and Pierce moves until the break status is depleted. Then unleash Sting and Pierce in order to freshly apply it again right after. A max level break gauge lasts for 5 seconds before disapearing.

    Your basic attack is a useful move, dont forge that it exists and use it accordingly. Use it to finish off low health enemies, instead of wasting your stronger moves overkilling. But also understand that it is less cost efficient than your other moves. Also understand that it's low cost means its scaling is twice as good as Pierce, and has twice the proc chance. Consider this as well depending on the attack buffs you have.

    Bring a healing monster if you can. Utility is more important than raw gear score. You cannot rely on random allies to heal you in time of need, so bring a healing monster along with Heavens Breath to survive.

    If you ever plan on competing unison monsters with an enemy guild, see if you can quickly kill a squishy target before you or the enemy initiate unison. Lancer has high burst damage than can quickly kill a mage or archer before they can react. I recommend using Knights Blitz for this job, since it is one of the fastest and hardest hitting moves in the game.

    As well as status resistance, strong enemies also have break resistance. Generally it is not huge enough to require using Savage Sting over Pierce, but since enemies have hidden break limits, you should test yourself if its worth having better break bonuses over better damage efficiency. It really depends on the enemy you are facing, and the lances that you have though. If you have a good amount of Heart of Spear lances, the break advantage Savage Sting has over Pierce becomes negligible though.

    Some great gear that should be given attention are Renballs, and the Lance of Aqueor. Renballs are very cheap pets gotten from the Soultaker event. 30 cost UR monsters take up a lot of space. Renballs are very usefull filler monsters if you cant afford to hold a full team of UR monsters. They are deceptively powerful. Having extremely high stat ratios for its cost. Not only that, they are very easy to farm. The Lance of Aqueor is a very powerful lance despite being an SR base weapon. It has a great damage to stat ratio, while at the same time having Heart of the Spear, an essential skill for Lancers.

    If you do not have the optimal lances in the game, consider using Physical Testament swords. They dont get the passive boosts that lances do, but their skill makes up for this. Replace weak lances like Photon Lances and Jade Lances with a UR Physical/Fatal Testament sword instead.

    Helmets have better class passives than armors. So if possible you want to focus more on helmets than armors. This will give you slightly better defenses.
    Last edited by Cobalt; 02-17-2016, 12:44 AM.
    No longer playing.


    • CarmineCoffee
      CarmineCoffee commented
      Editing a comment
      That renball.

    • Oniichan
      Oniichan commented
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      I don't quite understand how to full in those 2 sub trait slots can you please explain to me?

    • AsuraPhoenix
      AsuraPhoenix commented
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      Oniichan When you reach 4th ring, you are only given a very few traits from the first ring of two other classes to choose from. If you're asking how to equip those subtraits, you simply go to your archdragoon 4th class ring and at the bottom there are two empty circles which you can click on and choose. If you were wondering what to choose, then I would prioritize clothing, hat, helm, or armor, according to which you have the most of. To be honest however, these subtraits boost don't really make much of a difference in your gs.

    Very well written. As for the dps in abilities, lower cost abilities benefit more from weapon procs than higher ones (basic attack master race) but mentioning the average dps of abilities is helpful on its own. I do believe lancers need more than 6 armor pieces, but that's just me. +1

    Also, listing the special effects from their heart of the x procs would be pretty helpful to those not aware


      you had me hooked at "bread and butter"

      Nemurerumori / Sword / Fujin
      Guild: COLOSSUS
      Game ID: 2017106838
      ----- ID: Slypheed
      Password: 123456


        "Lancer master race"

        + 1 Good job writing this up, hopefully other players find this as useful as I did.
        Last edited by CarmineCoffee; 09-30-2015, 11:09 PM.
        IGN: Carmine I Ecchi I Risqué

        Home is where the heart is--with family and friends.


          Awesome post, thanks Cobalt ! Stickied

          Signature image courtesy ekichou.


          • Cobalt
            Cobalt commented
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            Thank ya baby

          um, are we playing a different game? I don't see a double sting for lancer?


          • Cobalt
            Cobalt commented
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            It is the second right skill at the bottom of the archdragoon skill ring.

          What is a ranked weapon o.O?
          "Draw me burning in ice"
          Credits to Miki

          Asura Clan | Risqué | Easy Cash


          • Cobalt
            Cobalt commented
            Editing a comment
            ranked guild wars offer special medals for rewards. you can use these to buy a special weapon for each class for 50 medals. for lancer, its a scythe called World's End.

          • AsuraPhoenix
            AsuraPhoenix commented
            Editing a comment
            Ahh yes. Been waiting for the next ranked battles so I can finally get one

          Well thought and executed. Very helpful insight. Kudos. You neglect to mention Bestial shout and demoralize. I assume it's because they're almost compete garbage lol. Also I think the ranked weapon has changed. It's now the Armageddon and costs 250 medals. The ability boosts the effect of any heart abilities. Sadly I don't think world's end is available anymore, at least I know it's not in the guild ranked rewards. Maybe it's the colosseum rewards. I will like this post.
          How we look recruiting before RGB


          • Cobalt
            Cobalt commented
            Editing a comment
            theres a little note at the top of the moveset section that tells you that all moves i deem worthless are not included. space is limited and i wantes to make the guide detailed but also removing useless info. thanks for the feedback though i will keep updating my guide along.with the game

          Originally posted by Gillroyale View Post
          Well thought and executed. Very helpful insight. Kudos. You neglect to mention Bestial shout and demoralize. I assume it's because they're almost compete garbage lol. Also I think the ranked weapon has changed. It's now the Armageddon and costs 250 medals. The ability boosts the effect of any heart abilities. Sadly I don't think world's end is available anymore, at least I know it's not in the guild ranked rewards. Maybe it's the colosseum rewards. I will like this post.

          No, World's End is the UR version of Armageddon and it costs 50 medals. The reason why you don't see it anymore is because you're only allowed to buy it once from the medal exchange. Otherwise, people would just buy multiple of these,
          IGN: CS || Ace


          COLOSSUS (Rank 1 for RGB5 and RB6)
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            I was watching a video by RG and he recommended something like a 6/5/5/2 for Lancer. Any idea on which is better?


            • Metatron
              Metatron commented
              Editing a comment
              Is the cost efficiency bad as everything thinks though? According to the guide, the CE for Savage Sting is in-between Sting and Pierce. Double Sting, although the worst around 12, hits twice, so technically it has a "hidden" damage factor since it scales more for any buffs/procs than any of the single hit skills. It'd be interesting if you could calculate CE and DPS taking into account procs as well. It might be possible that when taking all that into account, Savage Sting/DS might be just as cost efficient as the others on average?

            • Cobalt
              Cobalt commented
              Editing a comment
              I don't really have the time or motivation to do such testing. True, double sting does have twice as good scaling. But from my experience it's not a big enough of a factor in general play to make it cost efficient. Another issue is break bonus. Double Sting has the lowest break bonus of all moves, and it doesn't benefit from Heart of the Lancer or Heart of the Spear unlike the other stings.

            • boltthecat
              boltthecat commented
              Editing a comment
              I want to add to the double sting. Double sting is a great skill for pve. In gvg, even if it does two times the goodies against a mage, the fact it doesn't damage as fast as kb makes this skill a no no to me. Just my opinion.
              Last edited by boltthecat; 02-12-2016, 07:41 PM.

            i need help over here, till now i still can't get Armlet of Courage. I completed all the things that are required like rank 48, sub quests all completed and etc. what should i do?


            • Cobalt
              Cobalt commented
              Editing a comment
              You need to have the second ring of cleric finished. Have you done that?

            • luvangel
              luvangel commented
              Editing a comment
              yes, i did.

            • Cobalt
              Cobalt commented
              Editing a comment
              Hmm. Try going to the item page and activating it there manually

            Lurk ended
            How certain can we be abt this 7th slot at lv120?
            I'm considering resetting a monster out should this happen.
            Frontline lancer here and I'd like to be a little tankier. 7/4/4/5 or 7/5/3/5 look good to me
            Depends on what I have by then.
            As a lancer damage scale is lacking as Attack gets higher so why try to get it to 100k if your blitz and Double stings are still going to end up average even with procs? The 60-75k range seems fine enough for now. I think lancers need to start thinking abt a build that will help last on the field a little longer in pvp to contribute. I often find myself dead after any 1 magic attack touches me with the glass build and I feel like I'm not helping sometimes even if I took someone down with me from the other side in the process.

            On a side note idk abt anyone else but the only times I saw noticeable spikes in my damage as I was growing were when I filled a new weapon slot (infusions aside) So with a 7th slot that's gives us the chance to while adding maybe a little more noticeable attack to also replace raw stats with better/more def.
            Bc as it stands sure you could stack mdef with 3 haste UR but how many lancers have more than 1 or 2 to make a difference. And for the attack we have to stop comparing ourselves to cb archers we just can't go toe to toe on the crystal which I'm realizing more and more when these top guilds 1 shot with an all archer backline. (My beef is surviving them 1 time to kill them back on the occasions they do sub on the fL)
            The only class we can compare our respective atk stats to are Mages as long as we keep our attk in the range of their matk and keep it relatively higher than their defense we'll be sort of ok...pray for procs
            Last edited by xXLadyDeathXx; 02-11-2016, 03:47 AM.


            • Guest's Avatar
              Guest commented
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              Leaving it at ' anyone can proc so don't bother counting cuz it can go both ways' is already your big error

            • boltthecat
              boltthecat commented
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              Well that can be argued back and forth. I would like to see it in action instead of all these theoretic potentials.

            • Guest's Avatar
              Guest commented
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              Same. Except I see it on my own