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Lancer 103 - The Art of Basic Breaking

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    #31
    I'm a little late on this, but YAY! I GET A MENTION!

    Lancers definitely got an upper hand in this current meta, especially with quick burst being the main meta. It's not to mention that lancers are centralizing more on an offensive build (8/5/5/8 at Lv150) to make themselves even more threatening if it's let's say a lancer guild. Having that break is so important that Def stats barely matter anymore. Great job on the guide! I missed the days I played lancer in colo because mages were picked on a lot.

    Good thing I play backline. I mean I wouldn't want to head home sick because I took a Croissant to the mouth. :P
    Last edited by Linathan; 11-28-2016, 06:46 AM.
    Retired lol

    Comment


      #32
      I pray to god that all Lancers from beginners to experienced players come here and take a good hard look on this guide. It's crystal clear and answers so many questions on how to play the class correctly.
      Amazing work.


      ¤ LichtKreis ¤

      Comment


        #33
        Incredible guide.

        Lancer class is tend to be used incorrectly specially in PvE, because of the High Atk Stat (And the Ingame description of the "Powerhouse" thingy i guess?)
        But this guide covers perfectly why DPSing is not your job and why keeping a target on break should be your first priority.

        Deffinitely a must read, even for other classes since understanding how your enemy works is the first step to find out their weaknesses.

        Fantastic work Leaf!

        Your favorite F2P Archer
        Daivix - ID: 2039871449

        Comment


          #34
          Daivix Severe Sting and Cross Assault have massive DPS, although you should be paired with a good Break-focused Lancer on the side. Due to this, a Party Host Lancer (like me) can be someone worth joining because if they have a Break-focused build, you can get away with using Severe Sting + Cross Assault. Just please, don't put Dragon Assault in your build. Just don't.



          Well, considering we learned that Critical Damage is an AP Boost (+50 AP, or +55 AP if you're a Soldier or Lancer thanks to passives), and not a multiplier... This changes everything on the way crits are seen.

          https://forum.a-tm.co.jp/forum/uniso...877#post134877


          You can find the digest over here.


          Due to this discovery, I'll re-evaluate Fatal Testaments as a proc. But essentially, they're basically Physical/Magic Testament XXL in critical damage form. They don't stack with one another (hence why you should only have one in your Main Slot, PvP), but they have a higher proc rate than Physical/Magic Testaments.





          Now with 8th Gear Slot being a thing in JPUL, I'll do some number crunching to see how much damage an 8/x/x/5 build loses to an 8/x/x/8 build. I'll be right back...





          IGN: FN || Leaf ID: 2042811095

          This Is How You DO Play Lancers

          Comment


          • BowDown
            BowDown commented
            Editing a comment
            While Fatal Testaments cannot stack, crit damage can still be buffed. Soul of the Ogre SHOULD make crits boost skills by 75 AP instead of the usual 55 AP for lancers. Though, I don't have a Soul of the Ogre weapon to confirm so idk if this is true.

          • LaconicLeaf
            LaconicLeaf commented
            Editing a comment
            BowDown Don't forget Berserker Spirit from 4th Ring is a thing, boosting Critical Damage by 30%, or 30 AP...

          • BowDown
            BowDown commented
            Editing a comment
            LaconicLeaf Yeah, I tested out the effects of crit damage buffs almost 3 weeks ago on this thread:

            https://forum.a-tm.co.jp/forum/uniso...690#post128690

            That's where I found that crits are a 50 AP increase and crit damage buffs don't boost crits by a % amount. Instead, crit damage buffs boost crits by some AP too.

          #35
          NOTE: This table is rather outdated now that Cross Assault got its cooldown buffed from 10 to 9 seconds. Please click this message to go to the more relevant, updated table.


          Ok, with the recent JPUL changes buffing Severe Sting, I'll analyze it again:


          "Given the new cooldown time, does Severe Sting deal higher DPS, or have higher CE, than Cross Assault?"


          Note - I also included Double Sting and Basic Attack simply because they're other high DPS and CE Lancer skills.
          Skill
          Severe Sting
          (170 AP, 6 sec CD, 12 cost)

          DPS
          Severe Sting
          (170 AP, 6 sec CD, 12 cost)

          CE
          Cross Assault
          (130/140 AP x2, 10 sec CD, 16 cost)

          DPS
          Cross Assault
          (130/140 AP x2, 10 sec CD, 16 cost)

          CE
          Double Sting (100/110 AP x2, 9 sec CD,16 cost)
          DPS
          Double Sting (100/110 AP x2, 9 sec CD,16 cost)

          ​CE
          Basic Attack ( 60 AP, 4 sec CD, 5 cost)

          DPS
          Basic Attack ( 60 AP, 4 sec CD, 5 cost)

          CE
          No Break 28.333 14.167 26 / 28 16.250 / 17.5 22.222 / 24.444 12.5 / 13.75 15 12
          w/ Break 36.667 18.333 36 / 38 22.5 / 23.75 X X X X
          +20 AP, no Break 31.667 15.833 30 / 32 18.75 / 20 26.667 / 28.889 15 / 16.25 20 16
          +20 AP, w/ Break 40 20 40 / 42 25 / 26.25 X X X X
          +40 AP, no Break 35 17.5 34 / 36 21.5 / 22.5 31.111 / 33.333 17.5 / 18.75 25 20
          +40 AP, w/ Break 43.333 21.667 44 / 46 27.5 / 28.75 X X X X
          +60 AP, no Break 38.333 19.167 38 / 40 23.75 / 25 35.556 / 37.778 20 / 21.25 30 24
          +60 AP, w/ Break 46.667 23.333 48 / 50 30 / 31.25 X X X X
          +80 AP, no Break 41.667 20.834 42 / 44 26.25 / 27.5 40 / 42.222 22.5 / 23.75 35 28
          +80 AP, w/ Break 50 25 52 / 54 32.5 / 33.75 X X X X
          +140 AP, no Break 51.667 25.834 54 / 56 33.75 / 35 53.333 / 55.556 30 / 31.25 50 40
          +140 AP, w/ Break 60 30 64 / 66 40 / 41.25 X X X X
          Red - Constant buffs territory
          Blue - Proc-reliant territory




          Verdict
          • At no AP modifiers, Severe Sting out-DPSes every other skill in this chart, Break or not. It's also more cost-efficient than Basic Attack or Double Sting. It takes about 80 AP for a comboless Cross Assault to out-DPS Severe Sting, but if Cross Assault is being used as a combo, and with Break, it deals higher DPS regardless. Answering the question beforehand, it's still better to use Cross Assault as a 3rd attack because it takes advantage of AP modifiers much better than Severe Sting in regards to DPS and CE scaling.
          • With +40 AP, Double Sting and Basic Attack become more cost-efficient to use than Severe Sting (when comparing without Break). Once Break is applied, Severe Sting just barely beats Basic Attack in CE.
          • +60 AP refers to having max Physical AP Buff + Attack Stance. Since Severe Sting builds tend to have Cross Assault + Double Sting, there's no room for Attack Stance. Thus, the Savage Sting + Double Sting build with Attack Stance can deal comparable damage to a +40 AP Severe Sting, if Break isn't applied (same applies for +20 AP Basic Attack and Double Sting vs +0 AP Severe Sting). Cross Assault is extremely powerful, but make sure you watch your cost; it goes on without saying, but 3 attacks burns cost faster than 2 attacks + Attack Stance.
          • As more and more AP modifiers are applied, Severe Sting actually diminishes in CE compared to the other attacks. Savage Sting may also experience similar diminishing returns as Severe Sting, since both attacks have the same cost, but it still has the capability to increase its Break bonus through Heart/Secret procs, thus better Effect Efficiency.
          • Replacing Savage Sting for Severe Sting is a noticeable increase in DPS. However, you could only really get the best out of Severe Sting if Double Sting inflicts Break beforehand thanks to a proc. Although you can still use Double Sting > Severe Sting to inflict Break, it still feels lame to not get the most out of Severe Sting. Thus, I feel like it's still better to just let another Break-focused Lancer inflict Break for you instead.
          • However, the above two points were based on Severe Sting before it got buffed. After the buff, Severe Sting is now a MUST-have in any PvE Lancer build. It out-DPSes every other Sting, has the highest base Break bonus without procs, and works wonders in a Break Lancer build with Double Sting. Also, the DPS of Severe Sting actually isn't too far off from Cross Assault, and Double Sting deals comparable DPS to Cross Assault unless Break is applied. Double Sting has utility, but Cross Assault has the best burst and DPS once Break is applied.
          • The shorter CD and higher Break bonus shouldn't really affect Severe Sting too much in PvP, as it already inflicts Break to players reliably thanks to its high base AP.








          I'll test Cross Assault/EE/Double Sting/Severe Sting/Basic Attack as a PvE set once we get the update. It'll take a while to fully test it out, because enemy Break Tolerances for the Orb quests may change during the 12/15 revamps. I'll try to post my results early on, to see if a procless Double Sting + procless Severe Sting is good enough for bossing and inflicting Break with a few Double Sting proc Lances. If Severe Sting's Break bonus gets buffed to be on-par with Double Sting, that's kinda viable, but if it's buffed to be higher than Double Sting, then it becomes a definite recommendation. (if only Hetei's event didn't end right when Severe Sting gets buffed... Darn!)
          Last edited by LaconicLeaf; 04-16-2017, 02:38 AM. Reason: Added a link to the more recent table


          IGN: FN || Leaf ID: 2042811095

          This Is How You DO Play Lancers

          Comment


            #36
            Turns out, Severe Sting wasn't buffed after this maintenance, so it may take until next week, or the week after that for me to start testing it thoroughly...


            IGN: FN || Leaf ID: 2042811095

            This Is How You DO Play Lancers

            Comment


            • Flamma
              Flamma commented
              Editing a comment
              Well that sucks... and also wtf with cost mission... false advertisment

            • LaconicLeaf
              LaconicLeaf commented
              Editing a comment
              Flamma Regarding the cost missions, it is likely that JPUL got them in a higher level cap than our server. Thus, they weren't even released yet, but that's the issue of being out of sync with content and level caps.

              At least we still get the free 30 Inventory slots.

            • HotMessExpress
              HotMessExpress commented
              Editing a comment
              We also got 20 cost added (5 to each equip slot). It sucks that we didn't get free points to allocate, but gear cost is still nice

            #37
            So my NewType instincts popped in, and right as I log in, Whaku sends me a PM in-game, telling me how Severe Sting got a MASSIVE boost to its Break bonus.




            Hai Whaku LOL

            In one of the earlier maps, there's the Grandosaur, which has an insane Break Tolerance. Severe Sting takes 2 casts to Break the Grandosaur, while it takes 3 casts of Double Sting to Break it. Looking at a less tolerant target, the Water Dragon, it takes 1 Severe Sting to Break, while it takes 2 Double Stings.

            Whaku did a few more trials. He says it takes 1 Heart proc Sting + 2 Heart procless Stings (like procced Pierce, then procless Sting + Savage Sting) to inflict Break to the Grandosaur. Then, it takes 1 procced Sting to Break the Water Dragon.

            Originally posted by LaconicLeaf
            Assigning some (rough napkin math) values for Break Tolerances:

            Severe Sting (buffed) - 2.0
            Double Sting - 1.5
            Pierce/Sting/Savage Sting/Severe Sting (pre-buffed) - 1.0
            Break Thrust - 0.5
            Break Attack - 0.25 (?)

            (Heart procs increase your Break bonus by 1 point)


            NOTE: These are still preliminary approximations. Let's say the Grandosaur is Break Threshold of 4.0 (can withstand a single proc Sting), while the Water Dragon is 2.0 (can withstand a procless Sting/Double Sting, but not a procced Sting of any type).

            United Offense bosses require 3 procced Stings to inflict Break into, iirc, so their Break Threshold might be 6.0. I might have to reconfirm this when Fire United Offense is released, because it's been a while since I ran Hetei.

            Therefore, apparently, Severe Sting now has the same Break bonus as a single Heart proc Sting.


            How will this affect PvE builds for Lancers? If multiple Lancers are present, then Severe Sting will Break, and then any other attacks from other Lancers will deal huge amounts of damage.




            Thus, builds like:

            - Attack Stance / EE / Severe Sting / Double Sting / Basic Attack (Break Build 3.0)

            - Attack Stance / EE / Severe Sting / Cross Assault / Basic Attack (Pure DPS Lancer w/ Apollo Set)

            or even

            - Cross Assault / EE / Severe Sting / Double Sting / Basic Attack (Break + DPS Lancer)


            are now a possibility.




            This also means you don't exactly need Heart of the Spear procs anymore, since you're using the newer Sting moves. Severe Sting being equal to a single Heart proc Sting WITH a lower cooldown DRASTICALLY boosts its viability in PvE settings. But even then, a single Heart proc Double Sting still deals superior Break bonus than Severe Sting, so the Heart of the Sting, or even Secret of the Spear procs are still usable.

            I'm guessing JPUL players kept complaining about Severe Sting/Cross Assault/Death Pierce (or Knight's Blitz) Lancers having little to no utility, and thus people miss seeing the Break builds. At the same time, they felt like running a Break build lowered your DPS since you had to use Savage Sting, a move with low DPS. Due to those aspects, the devs decided to buff Severe Sting to be on the same level as a single Heart proc Sting.




            (But honestly... I don't know why they decided to take that approach. Wouldn't the more logical solution be to make Assault Mastery and Lancer's Conviction boost the Break bonus of Severe Sting? That was exactly what happened with Clerics and Healing Testament...)


            Although, as of right now, we still have the crappy Break bonus Severe Sting with the 7 sec cooldown time. I'll edit the PvE setups and also the Severe Sting section later on once we actually get the changes.


            Who knows when it'll be buffed? Will it be buffed next maintenance? Will it be buffed during the Elemental Rush revamps?


            Next, on Mobile Suit Zeta Lancer 103:


            A Savager Sting





            "You will see the Tears of Time."
            Last edited by LaconicLeaf; 12-03-2016, 11:41 PM.


            IGN: FN || Leaf ID: 2042811095

            This Is How You DO Play Lancers

            Comment


            • LaconicLeaf
              LaconicLeaf commented
              Editing a comment
              Sunfire For now, assuming pre-buff, I wouldn't exactly rely on solely one Sting move which has compatibility with Heart procs. If you're running with a Break-specialist Lancer, then you can get away with it, but it's rare to find Lancers use movesets other than Severe/Cross/KB (or Death Pierce) or the moveset you just mentioned.

              Post-buff, it's still better to use Double Sting over Pierce/Sting/Savage Sting. There exists a few mobs which get broken by a procless Double Sting regardless; it's just simple trial-and-error to find such mobs.

              The buff for Severe Sting in JPUL appears as a a massive game-changer for Lancers. Since it usually takes 1 Heart proc Sting to break most mobs, Severe Sting fills in that role, and it's consistent in that regard, giving the Apollo Set Blessing much more viability in PvE (Main Slot proc interference is offset by high base Break bonus). This makes Pierce/Sting/Savage Sting become obsolete, and Double Sting is still useful since procs make it have the highest Break bonus in the game.

            • Sunfire
              Sunfire commented
              Editing a comment
              I probably should have mentioned strictly post-buff, I know for now I definitely believe in a Savage/Dbl/Cross/EE. Do you know if there's confirmation that the Mastery/Coniction skills don't do anything for break bonus?
              I know I'm thinking it's much easier to push for double proc Spear skills for the pierce/sting/savage trio rather than double sting, but I've also only got one secret lance and I'm 3 medals from the RGB 2.0 lance. There was much sobing after last RGB. xD

            • LaconicLeaf
              LaconicLeaf commented
              Editing a comment
              Sunfire I left the link in the procs section, but I'll leave it here for easier reference:
              https://forum.a-tm.co.jp/forum/uniso...ew-rgb-weapons

              I told Whaku to test a Lancer's Conviction proc on the first enemy of Labyrinth, and it didn't inflict Break. However, a procless Double Sting, which currently has more Break bonus while procless compared to the rest of the Stings, succeeds in Breaking that same enemy.

              It is possible to use Pierce instead of Double Sting, although you still have to fish for your HoS procs for that. Meanwhile, Heart of the Sting procs appear more viable after the buff, as you can decide whether to use Severe Sting as a utility (apply Break if Double Sting doesn't proc), or DPS (when Double Sting procs). On another note, it should also make future United Offense events easier since it should take 3 Severe Stings to break a boss.

              Realistically, I'd expect the changes after the 12/15 update because who knows, maybe they don't want Mobius to be ''too easy'' with the buffed Severe Sting, so they'd hold off on giving us the buffs until a bit later (JPUL had Water Mobius before the buffs). But things might be different, who knows?

            #38
            I have 95k ATK, with Apollos Blessing i get 104.5k! So its not worth it? Plus it procs a lot because i have the helm and armor proc if the weapon doesnt! Strictly speaking for PvP! Thanks for this awesome post Leaf! One day you will be as good as me!

            Comment


            • Whaku
              Whaku commented
              Editing a comment
              I recently took off my Apollo set for GB because I finally got enough testament lances that I no longer need to rely on the armours to boost my offensive proc rates. I took mine off and replaced them with magic reflect procs. Am seeing a difference in survivability against Archers compared to when I had the set on (not surprisingly). Also more troll against Mages too lol. Gotta love when they try to double proc meatball me and get hit with double reflect then finish them off with a CA. In GB, it's better to take off the set.

              For PvE it's a DPS Lancer's frand. It becomes a hindrance for Break set Lancers in PvE tho. Also didn't I see you in one of my CD runs?

            • Crito
              Crito commented
              Editing a comment
              but Leaf is already Pro

            #39

            Severe Sting buff is now live.

            Whaku Testing it... I can say one thing:


            Unfortunately, its Break bonus is still lower than that of a single Heart proc Sting from the 1st - 3rd Rings.


            It seems to just have slightly higher of a Break bonus. How did I come to this result?








            Meet the CD Golem.

            He Breaks if you hurt him with a single proc Sting. He doesn't Break if you hurt him with a Double Sting, let alone a Severe Sting.

            I did these tests on the same run. First, I fired off Sting, and it triggered a Heart proc. Golem got Broken. I then jabbed to Max Chain once the CPUs won't stop attacking, and once that ended, I used Severe Sting against the Golem. Didn't inflict Break.




            After all that waiting, is Severe Sting worth using in PvE?


            When I ran Savage Sting + Double Sting, and didn't activate Heart procs both times, some mobs I attacked with this combo failed to get inflicted with Break. But since Severe Sting has higher base Break bonus, it might be enough to inflict Break.

            So I tested this during Cerberus Event 45 AP, and MidBoss! Cerberus didn't get inflicted with Break after the Severe + Double combo (subsequent attacks inflicted Break on him faster than procless Savage Sting + Double Sting). When I used that same combo against #OneTrueGod -- I mean Anubis, he got inflicted with Break (a single Heart proc Double Sting Breaks him alone). Finally, when I used the Severe + Double combo against Boss! Cerberus himself, he got inflicted with Break. A single Heart procced Double Sting doesn't Break Boss! Cerberus though.

            That being said, Severe Sting is now viable as a PvE Break skill. While you lose the Savage Sting to Double Sting combo effect, the higher AP and lower cooldown of Severe Sting makes up for it. Plus, when you Break something with Double Sting, you can now not only spam Basic Attack against the mob, but also Severe Sting alongside it!

            Thus, the viability of the Apollo Set increased rather marginally for PvE. Proc interference gets rather offset with the high base Break bonus of both Stings, and you get to benefit from the higher proc rate when spamming Basic Attacks. If multiple Lancers are present in a party, and each of them carries Severe Sting, then it's still easier to inflict Break.

            Now, does that make Break-focused Lancer builds obsolete?

            Not quite yet. Sure, for normal PvE, Break builds featuring 2 Stings from the 1st - 3rd Rings have kinda dropped in favor. I mean, you can still use them, but you still have to rely on your HoS procs to inflict Break. Severe Sting + Double Sting provides more consistency, and since you're only using Double Sting as a Heart-compatible skill (increasing Break bonus through procs), Heart of the Sting procs are more viable now. With Heart of the Sting, you can immediately start the Break chain at 2 Combo rather than Chain Start!, which makes it faster for building Unisons; being able to Break with one Sting also saves you cost when you spend more time Basic Attacking a broken enemy.

            In Mobius, even Savage Sting still has its uses here as a backup-Sting whenever Severe Sting or Double Sting are cooling down. Since you're progressing through waves much faster, and more of them to boot, having a 3rd Sting in reserve prevents you from being a sitting duck if you use 2 Stings to Break the last enemy in a wave.




            And for fun, here's how Lancer Break Builds progressed throughout the years:

            - Break Build 1.0

            Pierce (or KB)/Sting/Savage Sting/EE/Basic Attack

            The standard Sting build for a Lancer. You have 3 chances to proc, and then you can spam Basic Attack after that. However, this early Break build had quite low DPS, so once Attack Stance became more noticeable, and became a viable replacement for KB...

            - Break Build 1.5

            Attack Stance/Sting/Savage Sting/EE/Basic Attack

            Attack Stance is one of the tools which turns Basic Attack into a WMD. The key is to inflict Break, and then spam the Basic Attack repeatedly until Break is gone/target dies. Since AS makes Basic Attack worth spamming, other procs, like Cost Recovery, take it to the next level. (Pierce can replace Savage Sting if preferred for slightly higher DPS)

            - Break Build 2.0

            Attack Stance/Savage Sting/Double Sting/EE/Basic Attack

            Not viable for when 4th Ring came out, because Double Sting was an inefficient skill, poor base Break bonus and high cost, while being inferior to Dual Sword for DPS. After 5th Ring, Double Sting turned into the Swiss Army Knife for Lancers, with good DPS scaling, good burst damage, and Break utility all in one skill.

            - Break Build 3.0

            Attack Stance/Severe Sting/Double Sting/EE/Basic Attack

            The buff for Severe Sting made Lancer builds more consistent in inflicting Break. Double Sting + Severe Sting has enough base Break bonus to Break certain mobs which fail to get Broken from a Savage + Double combo. Plus, once the enemy is Broken, Severe Sting can be spammed alongside Basic Attack more easily due to the lower cooldown time of the former skill.







            What are your thoughts on post-buff Severe Sting? Feel free to leave them below.
            Last edited by LaconicLeaf; 12-08-2016, 12:27 PM.


            IGN: FN || Leaf ID: 2042811095

            This Is How You DO Play Lancers

            Comment


            • Whaku
              Whaku commented
              Editing a comment
              LaconicLeaf By your rough break tolerances guide the changes could be:

              Severe Sting (buffed) - 2.0 -> 1.75
              Double Sting - 1.5
              Pierce/Sting/Savage Sting/Severe Sting (pre-buffed) - 1.0

              Thanks for your work!

            • MelancholyUL
              MelancholyUL commented
              Editing a comment
              So ... We're leaving off cross assault?

            • LaconicLeaf
              LaconicLeaf commented
              Editing a comment
              MelancholyUL It's still possible to use Cross Assault, but you can't just simply fire it off whenever you score a Break; that's how you run out of cost very quickly. Instead, you use Cross Assault against the more durable targets, like bosses, or even certain minibosses with plenty of health (see: Anubis).

              Plus, even with Attack Stance, you can still alternate between Severe Sting + Basic Attack smoothly while an enemy is broken.

              Cross Assault, in this case, would have to replace either Attack Stance or Double Sting. Taking out the former does make the Basic Attack less viable to spam, making you more reliant on Physical AP buffs. While taking out the latter can leave you a sitting duck if you Break an enemy and it dies before Severe Sting's cooldown is off. (Technically you don't have to use Cross Assault under Break, but it's still highly worth doing so)
              Last edited by LaconicLeaf; 12-09-2016, 03:32 AM.

            #40
            I've been using basic atk to keep up the break counter and it's been pretty reliable. I haven't been carrying atk stance, should I? I'm only talking Möbius since I can't get past wave 17.

            Comment


            • LaconicLeaf
              LaconicLeaf commented
              Editing a comment
              Mobius is a different animal. Since there's like 20+ waves, and you progress through them much quicker than normal Event Quests, you actually have to use 3 Stings in your build. With 2 Stings, you risk being unable to Break the Titan Golems if the game says you don't proc, or being a sitting duck if your Stings are under cooldown at the end of a wave.

              So Severe/Savage/Double is the way to go.

            #41
            Question. I have 2 heart of the spear lances in my 6/4/4/6 build with 3 physical testaments(1 being apollo's glory) and 1 cost recovery. I was wondering if having 2 pre-4th ring stings would be better than having a pre-4th ring sting and double sting. Should i count on my procs or is does double sting give more consistency in break?

            Comment


            • LaconicLeaf
              LaconicLeaf commented
              Editing a comment
              Double Sting is rather consistent if you use Double then Severe to inflict Break. For example, enemies like Succubus or the other Orb Event monsters get broken from a procless Double Sting + Severe Sting. With the recent buff to Severe Sting, giving it Break bonus really close to that of a single Heart proc Sting, it makes 1st - 3rd Ring Stings more situational (as in used for Mobius, or if one prefers to gamble with procs for a higher Break bonus).

              To put Severe Sting's Break bonus to perspective, the first enemies in Succubus 45 AP event (though it should be the similar for all Orb Events), after getting hit by the skill, get inflicted with Break a few hits later. If a procless Double Sting hits them, then Break doesn't get inflicted until pretty much when they die.

              Double Sting simply works better with its procs though, because it allows you to save cost the more you spend time Basic Attacking after Break, or lets you skip straight to Cross Assault if you're facing a durable enemy. Pierce + Severe is also an option, although you may want 4 HoS procs instead of 2.

            • Sayonara
              Sayonara commented
              Editing a comment
              I didn't know that severe had a boost in breakability since the making of this guide. I thought it was weaker than a every other sting for a moment.

              Also, during the last mobius I found out that savage, double, and severe sting gave a guaranteed break to golems when procless. This'll probably be the set im running for the rest of mobius.

              Thanks for your input ^^ hopefully i'll meet you ingame someday

            • LaconicLeaf
              LaconicLeaf commented
              Editing a comment
              Sayonara It was recently buffed as of the 12/8 maintenance. I'll update the corresponding section of the guide once I have time...

            #42
            Now that the revamped Ele Rush quests are out, I'm gonna try updating them slowly but surely. The most notable change? Arcadia difficulty is a 3 Wave Boss Rush of the three Elemental Bosses of their respective element (so Wind would be Flora, Alice, and Zephyrus, in that order). Plus, after the quest, you get to pick a card, and then choose to spend 3 Gems to get the rewards from the other 8 cards.

            Paragon plays like your typical Ele Rush Orb quests, with a "Breather Wave" in the middle, only this time, a Super Stone Brother (Titan Golem) is in there. Notably, Ele Rush new quests allow you to max infuse your Ability Lance (Dragon Assault) and Blessing Lance (Divine Sunlance) without using Ethers.

            Thus, you don't have to use Blackwing Weapons or even the (unreleased) Dark United Offense weapon to Infuse your Sunlance.


            (I'll still keep the old Ele Rush writeups for archive purposes...)


            IGN: FN || Leaf ID: 2042811095

            This Is How You DO Play Lancers

            Comment


              #43
              So I looked into the Super Challenge Event Quest monster's stats, and her cost efficiency actually makes 4 UR Monster builds still viable for Lancers!




              - What's special about this 35 cost Monster?


              Stats (+198):
              Top: 5467
              Bottom: 5467 (6396 each, 6560 if ATK)

              Super Challenge Quest Monsters have the best cost efficency in the game. If you stack multiples of them, they'll actually beat out builds containing multiple Apollos or Vol&Renas while having less cost spent!

              Disregard defense stats for this comparison. For example, using Soldier/Lancer passives (+20% ATK with Lancer Shared Traits + 3% ATK passives), a +192 Soul Destroyer has 3852 ATK, a +198 Behemoth/Peliasa has 4092 ATK, while a +198 Nobunaga has 4644 ATK. Dividing their stat yields by their cost...

              Soul Destroyer (23 cost): 167.478 ATK/cost*
              Behemoth/Peliasa (25 cost): 163.68 ATK/cost
              Nobunaga (28 cost, 3375/3375 stats): 165.857 ATK/cost

              *Soul Destroyer initially has lower Cost Efficiency than a 3375/3375 28 cost Monster, but when both are +198, he actually outscales them, although he's still pretty much a Lancer Monster (dat Scythe).


              (The following comparisons will be based off the 8th Gear slot in mind)


              Comparisons


              When you look into newer Monsters, like 29 (5074 ATK) and 35 cost (6560 ATK)...

              Ares (29 cost): 174.966 ATK/cost
              Manannan (35 cost): 187.429 ATK/cost

              These Monsters outscale Soul Destroyer in terms of Cost Efficiency. A build with 4 Manannans will have 26240 ATK for just 140 cost, and if you put 4 +198 Firemins, that's 28808 ATK for 144 cost. Meanwhile, a build containing 1 Vol&Rena, 2 Apollos, 2 Soul Destroyers, and 3 Firemins (which I call "Vol&Rena's Ark") is 24186 ATK for 143 cost.

              Similarly, a 5 Ares + 3 Firemin build is 27296 ATK for 148 cost. Comparing the builds to Vol&Rena's Ark:

              Ares build = +3110 ATK
              Manannan build = +4622 ATK

              This ATK difference is roughly equal to squeezing out another Apollo (Manannan) or even a +0 Soul Destroyer (Ares).

              A build with 1 Vol&Rena, 2 Apollos, 3 Soul Destroyers, and 2 Firemins would have 27396 ATK for 165 cost.

              Optimally, it's still possible to run a 4 UR Monster build, because 4 Manannans and 4 Firemins cost 21 less points in comparison and gives more ATK. Thus, Lancers can still gear up to be defensive while having the equivalent of a 6 Apollo 2 Firemin build (and the Manannan build is 38 points less than the 6 Apollo 2 Firemin build; may have slightly less ATK but the cost saved allows you to equip more defensive gear).


              So when 8th Gear slot is released, it's still worth considering "soft-capping" your Monster Cost to 144. That way, you can still use the 143 cost Vol&Rena's Ark build as a stepping stone into a better build in the future.

              I thought it would be good to have 165 cost into Monsters for another Soul Destroyer, but with the insane Cost Efficiency of the 35 cost Monsters, it's still viable to stay with 144 cost.



              Disclaimer

              Manannan's quest is extremely difficult, given the "Super Challenge" title for a reason, and the versions of her which can randomly drop with ATK/DEF or MDEF/ATK are only from the highest difficulty that requires 240k GS. Even though this GS is attainable, Event Quests typically are a couple of ten-thousands of GS cost above their requirements (like Arcadia Elemental Rush quests are tuned towards higher level caps, around 140+). Since she's a Water element monster, if you try buying her from the Event Medal Exchange, she will have DEF/MDEF stats. Thus, I wouldn't worry about farming off-element 35 cost Monsters just yet, unless you were a whale of course who could handle the highest difficulty; you'll have a better chance once you reach Lv. 150.

              If the Fire 35 cost Super Challenge Event is released, however, it's still worth doing to farm 300 of the Event currency to buy the Monster, who should have ATK/DEF stats. Even if you get just one, it'll still replace the Vol&Rena in your build and drastically boost your Cost Efficiency and ATK.


              Also, keep in mind, Dark United Offense still isn't released for Lancers yet, so in the meantime, the 28 Cost Monster from that event is still viable to keep multiples of, once it's out.


              IGN: FN || Leaf ID: 2042811095

              This Is How You DO Play Lancers

              Comment


                #44
                Suffocate them to death my friend haha. this is crazzyyyyyyyyy

                great work though
                Truly Retired [ Yangire | Limitless | TrippyTurtles | ZERO ] - Providing the most natural and organic experiences and opinions.

                Comment


                  #45
                  Updated with a few more tweaks, like how Elemental Advantage works. Also inserted the Cardinal Sins of Playing Lancers under my "This is how you DON'T play Lancers" section; if you guessed Dragon Assault is what I hate seeing in Lancer builds, you'd be correct!

                  Also updated with Enforcer Testament and its effects. It looks like a proc which would make the Basic Attack a "Pseudo Sting" (I'm gonna call it "Basic Sting"), but you're gonna want multiples of these Lances, or one of them + Elevate buff.


                  IGN: FN || Leaf ID: 2042811095

                  This Is How You DO Play Lancers

                  Comment


                  • BlitzJager
                    BlitzJager commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I haven't tested it but it looks like quite the proc for breaking. Was hard to see in the quests I was doing but at one point I recall a monster taking a few hits to break procless and after a Unison I proc' enforcer with savage and got break. *shrug*

                    Would love to have several of these and finally move on to 5th ring skills permanently.

                  • MelancholyUL
                    MelancholyUL commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I only have one (wish I did have more lol) but it's in my main slot and it procs often. If it procs then any lancer ability I have equipped will apply break. I love this lance!

                  • LaconicLeaf
                    LaconicLeaf commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Also put in Art of the Strike in the procs section to make it feel more complete. Awesome name for a skill, too bad it was wasted on two skills which haven't aged well.
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