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Soldier School - Learn to be Useful!

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  • #16
    Seriously wish this was around before I went to archer, might try soldier again now. Excellent guide :3 Ateam Admin could this get a sticky?
    Last edited by Arc; 11-12-2016, 03:07 PM.
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    • #17
      Mirabelle
      I've been seeing (and participating in) use of Attack Stance on Burst-type soldiers, on various kinds of quests.
      It greatly improves their DPS efficiency, and doesn't do much to increase their risks of death.
      Your thoughts on this method?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Crimson Rain View Post
        Mirabelle
        I've been seeing (and participating in) use of Attack Stance on Burst-type soldiers, on various kinds of quests.
        It greatly improves their DPS efficiency, and doesn't do much to increase their risks of death.
        Your thoughts on this method?
        Good question.

        Short Answer: It's good during the quest but makes you worse at the boss fight and at taking down threatening monsters quickly.

        Longer Answer: Attack stance improves your Damage-per-Cost efficiency but lowers your Burst power. Meaning it makes you do a little bit more damage during the quest but lowers the amount of damage you can dish out between stagger unis during the boss fight. (And I don't think attack stance is going to increase a burst soldier's risk of death very much, btw. So that's not really a big concern.)

        Power per Cost Rankings
        1) Dual Impact (combo, attack stance) 21.33
        2) Dual Impact (combo) 18.66
        3) Antagonize (attack stance) 16.66
        4) Dual Sword (attack stance) 15.55
        5) Antagonize 15
        6) Dual Sword 13.33

        ^So assuming your ATK and DEF are roughly equal, you want to use Dual Impact with combo as much as possible for efficiency. Whether you're using attack stance or not.

        Set: EE, Antagonize, Dual Impact, Dual Sword
        Best Power Per Cost: Antag + Dual Impact = 17.04
        Total Set Power per Second: 85.11
        Total Set Cost per Second: -4.96
        Total Possible Burst Power: 700

        Set: EE, Antagonize, Dual Impact, Attack Stance
        Best Power Per Cost: Antag + Dual Impact = 19.26
        Total Set Power per Second: 68.88
        Total Set Cost per Second: -3.16
        Total Possible Burst Power: 520

        So, here's what the above comparison means:
        If you drop Dual Sword for Attack Stance...
        ...you are 13% more efficient with your most cost-efficient combo. Which should mean you get 13% more ability power out of the same amount of cost spent.
        ...you do less DPS given unlimited cost (sometimes the party has Haste and/or multiple Asuka. It happens on occasion xD)
        ...you do less damage in between staggered uni, since you have 1 less attack to use.

        I think the extra burst power during the boss fight is more important than being slightly more cost-efficient during the quest.

        One thing the attack stance set has going for it though is that it's more foolproof--You can't accidentally spam your burst moves too soon and run out of cost early. The way you should be playing a burst set though is using only your efficent moves during the quest and only using your inefficient moves (Dual Sword) when you have extra cost or you're fighting the boss.
        Last edited by Mirabelle; 11-13-2016, 07:05 PM.
        IGN: Mirabelle | Guild: Too Nice
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        • #19
          hi !! after i read your Soldier guide, i've been questioning about my Soldier Set (quest):
          i feel like i am Burst type because my Atk is more than my Def/Mdef (50k+ to 46k-49k+ ?): all my UR swords have Physical Testemant skills but 1 Heart of General skill (Divine Smash) and my monsters are in a mix with Avsaris, Apollo, Jack, Alice, Aizen, and Jabba (i don't have many good monsters ..) my set is 6/4/4/6 since i started as Lancer, all my 4 hats and 4 armors are UR
          * i also have alternative Soldier Set with less Atk because i changed monsters to Avsaris, Hachune Miku, Apollo, Aizen, SSR Yukino, and Poseidon, so more Def/Mdef (50k-51k+) and less atk (35k+)
          but i also feel like i am Offtank type because my abilities are similar to your Offtank abilities but not the same.. they are: Trip (replace basic attack), Smash, Divine Smash, Vanquish, and Ether Exchange . I equip Smash because i thought two debuff abilities weren't necessary and i still want to make enemies target at me more ??
          in my Soldier set, i am a Royal Protector with no unlocked abilities yet (sorry ....) , i am level 105 ( very close to 106) and my soldier set gear score is 174k including 10k bonus from furniture !
          Sorry for my long comment, i just don't know if my Soldier set needs some improvement..what do you think about this ?
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          • Mirabelle
            Mirabelle commented
            Editing a comment
            Crito It's okay to use a Party-Support ability on an Offtank set. Something like EE, Divine Smash, Vanquish, Charisma is fine.

            Barrier isn't that great in PvE. It suffers from many of the same problems Knight's Devotion does. Heaven's Breath is a self-support move and shouldn't be used on an Offtank set.

          • Crito
            Crito commented
            Editing a comment
            Ok,thank You for helping me improve my Soldier set !!

          • SpazPro
            SpazPro commented
            Editing a comment
            Devine smash has great aggro, but regular smash is not sufficient for aggro. If you realy want aggro, use devoted strike untill you get battleshout/antagonize.

        • #20
          Great post! Needs a Sticky. I googled for a guide and pulled up that old one that isn't updated. If you get time, maybe you can get into gear allotment suggestions? And weapon skills? I got a sword from this new stepup event which increases dmg done by antagonize, yay or nay?

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          • Mirabelle
            Mirabelle commented
            Editing a comment
            Myname-is Thanks! In the Intro there's a link to another forum post about Gear Cost Allocation (and some other things.) tl;dr max your weapons and body armor, then it's personal preference whether you want to prioritize helmets or monsters next.

            Antagonize is a good skill for a Tank or Burst set, so I would say yay. x)

            If you're interested in playing Tank or Offtank, I recommend the RGB 50 medal sword (Hero's Axe) and the 200 medal sword (Sword of Invigoration). Both of them proc on basic Smashes, Clashes, HB, and Mirror Guard. The Sword of Invigoration also procs on Divine Smash and Vanquish.

            If you do gem spawns, there are 24-cost UR swords that start at SR you can get without too much trouble, especially from class spawns. Light procs on Mirror Guard, Wind procs on Heaven's Breath, and Dark procs on Clashes. There's only one sword (I think) that procs on Vanquish aside from the RGB sword, and that's Nezha's sword.

          • Myname-is
            Myname-is commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks so much Mirabelle (not sure if I'm doing this right - new to the forums) I am taking all of your advice into consideration ^.^

        • #21
          This is excellent. Definitely deserves a sticky. I don't even play soldier and I liked reading this.


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          • #22
            Great guide! I would recommend this to all soldiers to take a look at.

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            • #23
              Ateam Admin why doesn't this get sticky? Other class guides get sticky and this one is good, many sticky requests.


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              • Ateam Admin
                Ateam Admin commented
                Editing a comment
                I somehow missed it!
                Sticked

              • Okayama
                Okayama commented
                Editing a comment
                Yay thanks!

            • #24
              This thread is the most beautiful thread, if I could like it twice I would.

              Better than the last soldier guide

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              • #25
                Just a minor interesting thing that I'm not going to bother putting into the main post - I've recently had some success with a Hybrid Tank-Offtank set since I acquired both RGB 1.0 and 2.0 Swords.

                The set looks like this:
                Main Weapon Slot: Secret of the Sword XL
                Sub Weapon Slots: Heart of the Soldier XL, Heart of the Blade XL, Heart of Reflection XL, 3x Physical Testament XL
                Abilities: Ether Exchange, Mirror Guard, Antagonize, Sword Clash

                7/4/4/7 - Mostly Def Gear, 7 Fire Monsters - Joan, Jack, Rena, Nidhogg, Apollo, Apollo, Ifrit
                I have just under 80k for both ATK and DEF with zero infusions or plusses and no Executioner ATK passive. (All of my infusions and plusses go to Mage/Archer gear x3)

                Anyway, this setup gives me 3 possible Mirror Guard procs and 3 possible Sword Clash procs. So I can effectively use both Mirror Guard and Sword Clash with high chances to get extra reflection stacks and extra debuff stacks. I would use Vanquish instead of Sword Clash if I had more procs for it, but I don't. >u<

                Secret of the Sword XL and Heart of the Soldier XL both give +4 reflection stacks for a total of 7. Heart of Refection XL only adds +2 reflection stacks.
                So, the possible proc combinations are:
                Secret + Soldier = 100% reflection
                Secret + Heart of Reflection = 90% reflection
                Soldier + Heart of Reflection = 90% reflection
                Secret = 70% reflection
                Soldier = 70% reflection
                Heart of Reflection = 50% reflection
                Nothing = 30% reflection

                And some of these activate very often! I haven't tested the rates, but it's fairly reliable. The Sword Clash procs have been very reliable as well.

                So this set still forces all enemies to target me with Antagonize, applies heavy ATK debuffs, and very often takes tons of pressure off the Cleric with 70%+ reflection.
                Pros:
                -Does a little bit of everything! Deals damage, draws aggro, huge damage reduction, debuffs enemies.
                Cons:
                -Still uses Ether Exchange, putting more pressure on the Cleric than a true Tank build
                -No room on the set for a Party-Support ability.
                -Doesn't debuff as hard as a true Offtank build with equivalent procs.
                -Only one Hate effect, so can't compete for aggro especially well, and a party-balance effect could be dangerous
                Last edited by Mirabelle; 11-30-2016, 12:41 PM.
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                • #26
                  I wouldn't worry about ether exchange. If you're feeling conservative just wait for somebody near you to fire it off. The only time it's annoying is when people stagger it several seconds apart.

                  As cleric my only concern with EE is somebody getting shotted immediately after, which really only happens on the boss. If you've got 7 mirrors on then that's nearly impossible, so even during a boss you should be fine unless they've got a lethal % attack
                  Hot Mess Express 2086796674

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                  • Mirabelle
                    Mirabelle commented
                    Editing a comment
                    HotMessExpress For the most part, I agree. EE usage usually isn't that much extra pressure until the boss fight. And even then, it's *usually* not adding significant pressure. However, I think it becomes a much bigger deal against a boss like Yamato Takeru in Arcadia. (Non-stop attacks, big damage, straining heal cooldowns to the limit x3)

                • #27
                  Is there a section for Special abilities? If not, then I can help test with Trip and Xmas BonBon, if you want to write one.
                  IGN: Alexander
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                  100% Grade A Smash

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                  • Mirabelle
                    Mirabelle commented
                    Editing a comment
                    SpazPro The only one I mentioned was Intrepid, because you don't need to have gem spawn luck to get that. ;3 (I'd like to keep only the essentials in the main posts so the guide stays as short as possible.)

                    But, Trip probably deserves a special mention for PvE, at least in these subsequent posts, because slowing down a boss should be really good! It can stack up to twice if you keep using it, right?

                  • SpazPro
                    SpazPro commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Mirabelle
                    It stacks up to two times, and will stay that way for the most part if you spam it as soon as it goes off of cooldown. The buff is 20 seconds, and the CD is 10. It paires great with other debuffs. It has great CE. 100 AP, 10 CD, and 5 cost. Though you will want a lancer build if you want to do significant damage with it tho. Even without alot of atk, the debuff is still worth using.

                    I would also mention Swift Smash If i were you. Not because I love smash or anything, but because it has the same CE and DPS as basic attack, but scales off of deff. Making it very viable for a tank soldier.

                  • Mirabelle
                    Mirabelle commented
                    Editing a comment
                    SpazPro Oh wow I didn't know Trip was 5 cost. That's fantastic. Thanks for the info!

                    I'm actually not particularly impressed with Swift Smash for PvE, since it doesn't have any additional effects. I would much rather have the extra cost and aggro from using Intrepid. Though it makes sense if you're running a Burst soldier build with high DEF. (So I think it's better for PvP)

                • #28
                  Mirabelle - should I use Dual Sword or Divine Smash for my burst set? My attack is at 50k and def is at 92k.

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                  • Mirabelle
                    Mirabelle commented
                    Editing a comment
                    nowayOUT Do you mean Dual Impact or Divine Smash?

                    If so, use Divine Smash. Dual Impact only scales off of ATK, and your DEF is much higher than your ATK.

                    If you meant Dual Sword... then both! Dual Sword and Divine Smash are 2/3 of the best burst moves for your stats. A standard Burst set for your stats usually looks like EE, Dual Sword, Divine Smash, Antagonize.

                    I encourage you to try non-burst sets, though! :3

                  • nowayOUT
                    nowayOUT commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I did mean Dual Impact. Thanks!

                    I am a Cleric main and only use Soldier when I run Curious Defender or other simple quests. For harder quests I run as Cleric .

                • #29
                  Question would Battleshout, Vanquish, Cheer, party support (like MR) and the smash basic atk replacement work well for a solider Off tank base?
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                  • Mirabelle
                    Mirabelle commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Cthulhu Interesting set, but I think it's closer to a Tank than an Offtank. I think it's best when Offtanks do not run any Hate-causing moves, so that they don't accidentally draw attacks away from a Tank in the same quest.

                    I also think it's best that Tanks run both Antagonize and Battleshout, so that you can draw attacks away from burst soldiers that bring one Hate move. It also helps to be able to use both abilities to keep Hate up even when Balanced or dealing with buff decay from the quest wave transitions.

                    At any rate, for an Offtank set I think you're better off swapping Battleshout for Ether Exchange, Divine Smash, or Sword Clash (if you have procs for it). If you plan to use Swift Smash a lot then you may need EE.

                  • Cthulhu
                    Cthulhu commented
                    Editing a comment
                    @Miabelle Alrighty, well thank you as always! The more i know

                • #30
                  I'd like to add another set I've had some success with!

                  This is a set specialized for quests with many dangerous 3-person aoe attacks. An example would be Wind Ordeal Paragon. This set can be of use if you find that your adjacent allies can't handle the extra damage from standing next to a Soldier drawing aggro.

                  Antagonize, Battleshout, Knight's Loyalty, Heaven's Breath (Intrepid)

                  You may notice that it's very similar to a Tank set, but with the Party-Support move switched for Knight's Loyalty. I know I discounted this move before as unreliable, and it still is. You can't keep your adjacent alies guarded 100% of the time. It's not a spammable move. But you can use it at the start of dangerous waves and buy 30 seconds for your allies to take some of the enemies out. Heaven's Breath becomes mandatory as the Self-Support due to the usage of Loyalty.
                  Tip: Use your uni when the duration of Loyalty is about to run out, then quickly re-apply Loyalty after the animation!
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