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    #16
    For me it was never a matter of having weaker attacks with my build. My beef is with trying to get soldiers to dish out gems to change builds to use the 5th ring abilities better. I like tanking! I specifically join quests that have no soldier just to draw attacks away from the party. I had high hopes of becoming tankier with 5th ring release. Not to be told the build I had worked hard to acquire armor and helms for was not going to work with 5th ring. I understand the numbers but, if I wanted to have more attack I would have put more cost into weapons. I'm sure a lot of tanks would have appreciated newer support abilities like kl and kd that matched the builds that the game steered us in the direction to have. If you have the build for successful soldier 5th ring abilities then that's great. I'm not changing what I worked for and as you stated, yes I'm allowed to be salty about the build aspect.

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      #17
      I kinda feel that Soldier needs some rework...
      Now mages skills are good enough and even passives...wait...did i say passives are gud? HELL NO! Mages become more useless at PVP due to elemental passives, WHO NEEDS THAT?!?!? Just have a Archer with DA and Qwaser on PVE and done! Mages become more PVE than PVP

      Defiance Soldier?
      WHO CARES!! Let me just put a 4 lancers in the battle!

      Comment


        #18
        Well, i'm the most hated class right now so my comment might be taken as trolling, but in my opinion: Soldiers are fine...almost.

        Soldiers were incredible before the 5th rings since they were able to do a High DPS and also Tank at the same time. (Not mentioning charisma tho)
        So most of the soldiers were pretty much Godlike...it made no sense.

        In any case, what needs a buff is the Tank version of the Soldier, maybe by implementing some skills in order to use those defenses efficiently.
        Maybe some ability to redirect all the aggro/damage effectively, a way better version of Knighs Loyalty or even an AOE Counter version.
        Tanks are useless in the meta right now because they can't actually tank or defend their team effectively, in my opinion anyways.

        If you want to do DPS, then go for a Burst build but do not ask to Tank and DPS at the same time.

        Your favorite F2P Archer
        Daivix - ID: 2039871449

        Comment


        • SpazPro
          SpazPro commented
          Editing a comment
          This.

        #19
        Being a cleric main, I don't mind my soldier set dealing sub-par damage, but when there are no good skills for protecting allies, and you'll get booted from parties if you try, what's the point of even having this class in the game? Sure you could go glass and be comparable to a lancer/mage, but then you're drawing aggro for defenses that can't handle it, plus your chances of inflicting break are about 3% with Rage Slash, can't imagine Dual Impact is much better. Right now it seems the class system is thus: Archers>Lancers>Mages>Clerics>Soldiers for PvP, and Archers>Mages>Lancers>Clerics>Soldiers for PvE. The only reason clerics are down on the list is because most people would only run with one cleric, if not do full mage/archer using their class healing skills along with uni to clear quickly and efficiently. Maybe soldiers will get buffed with the next ring, but since this one focused wholly on an aspect they can't utilize all that well without a massive wallet, I'm not feeling it.

        TL;DR Soldiers are meant to protect, their latest "upgrades" do not support this, and have made them the least wanted class in any situation. Not that anyone wants to be protected, except by a healer.

        Comment


        • Hatsya Souji
          Hatsya Souji commented
          Editing a comment
          I dunno, but they found Protecting boring, and plus most popular media (anime for being a notable offender), depict leader characters with a sword, hence they're trying to make us offensive with our swords and axes.

        • Daivix
          Daivix commented
          Editing a comment
          Hatsya Souji Actually...you might be right as silly as it sounds. That's Marketing for yall.

        • Hatsya Souji
          Hatsya Souji commented
          Editing a comment
          Daivix : Just look at some of the Kamen Riders / Masked Riders, then our fellow jRPG and wRPG main characters... promo and official weapons of theirs are mostly swords!

          Particular examples: Ex-Aid has transformable hammer/sword (KR Ex-Aid), Noctis can summon swords, lances, and other sort of melee weapons (FFXV), the Dovakhiin from ES Sky—min has a sword from its promo vid.

          Dem marketing!

          Ateam Admin : If you're nerfing us soldiers so mad, might as well put Filo and Ares in deep danger, and change UL opening video with Mariel, Tistino, Luca, and that shota blondie cleric fighting Jabba for 2017.

        #20
        Originally posted by Crimson Rain View Post
        Being a cleric main, I don't mind my soldier set dealing sub-par damage, but when there are no good skills for protecting allies, and you'll get booted from parties if you try, what's the point of even having this class in the game? Sure you could go glass and be comparable to a lancer/mage, but then you're drawing aggro for defenses that can't handle it, plus your chances of inflicting break are about 3% with Rage Slash, can't imagine Dual Impact is much better. Right now it seems the class system is thus: Archers>Lancers>Mages>Clerics>Soldiers for PvP, and Archers>Mages>Lancers>Clerics>Soldiers for PvE. The only reason clerics are down on the list is because most people would only run with one cleric, if not do full mage/archer using their class healing skills along with uni to clear quickly and efficiently. Maybe soldiers will get buffed with the next ring, but since this one focused wholly on an aspect they can't utilize all that well without a massive wallet, I'm not feeling it.

        TL;DR Soldiers are meant to protect, their latest "upgrades" do not support this, and have made them the least wanted class in any situation. Not that anyone wants to be protected, except by a healer.
        I am baffled at why people say they wouldn't want one Soldier in quest rooms. I can understand not wanting more than one, but you wouldn't want more than one Cleric either.

        But... Cleric perspective, okay.

        1) Do you find it helpful on quests when there is 1 Soldier present who is able to maintain aggro, letting you know exactly where the 1-person and 3-person attacks are going to hit?

        2) Do you find it helpful on quests when a Soldier is so good at mitigating damage to themselves that you hardly ever have to use a single-target heal on them, even if they have aggro?

        3) Do you find it helpful on quests when a Soldier is spamming Vanquish on the boss, keeping it constantly at -4 ATK/MATK or lower?
        IGN: Mirabelle | Guild: Too Nice
        UL ID: 2104891172

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        • Mirabelle
          Mirabelle commented
          Editing a comment
          Exifea I prefer the Archer, Mage, or Lancer to do that... but yes. c:

        • SpazPro
          SpazPro commented
          Editing a comment
          -40attak/-40mattak?!

          Forget that! Do you find it helpful on quests when a Soldier is spamming Vanquish on the boss, keeping it constantly at -8 ATK/MATK? Because it's more than possible. And infinitely helpful. I would know.

        • chaoticHarmony
          chaoticHarmony commented
          Editing a comment
          Do you find it helpful when you're right next to the soldier and you're squishy af.

        #21
        Relevant to your data, this is the 5th ring analysis I never bothered releasing I made ages ago. I've shown it to ATEAM Admin about a week after fifth ring release. Ignore the 3777 7773 Soldier cost mixup. The numbers were interchangeable to display change out the number of slots utilized for all classes with "25 cost gear in all slots" versus "25 cost 3-infuse +198 all slots".




        The problem isn't about damage efficiency or anything like that. It's that the class has lost its purpose by getting a fifth ring at the same time seventh slot was released. The burst potential was disproportionately raised for all classes through the means of superior offensive abilities and additional gearslots, meaning the offense:defense ratio is horribly skewed. Building as a pseudo-Lancer means you will exchange Break for Aggro, which is actually a terrible, terrible thing to do if you aren't stacking excess defense.

        The issue here is that it costs 200 gems to "repurpose" yourself via cost allocation to being a pseudo-Lancer who can't handle aggro/tanking roles for crap. Endgame Soldiers like me have to give up over 20 infusions worth of equipment to adapt to the "new optimal Soldier."


        To answer your cleric perspective questions:

        1) Gearing for Antagonize+DualImpact means you need to keep your physical defense high and your attack much much higher, pushing my MDEF ranges down from 50k~80k -> 25k~40k. You cannot handle aggro like this. For a tank, the likelihood of being attacked is five times higher. Think you can shoulder that burden with this stat discrepancy?

        2) Those Soldiers aren't running Dual Impact build... and you must not have been running the highest difficulty then if that's what you saw.

        3) This has nothing to do with 5th ring Soldier.
        Last edited by Nemurerumori; 10-07-2016, 05:20 PM.

        Nemurerumori / Sword / Fujin
        Guild: COLOSSUS
        Game ID: 2017106838
        ----- ID: Slypheed
        Password: 123456

        Comment


        • Mirabelle
          Mirabelle commented
          Editing a comment
          Nemurerumori About the Cleric-perspective questions. I should have clarified that my questions were related to Soldier in general, and not necessarily to any specific build of Soldier or usage of 5th ring skills. More about the potential things that a Soldier can do during PvE content. And not necessarily all on the same set.

        #22
        Forgot to point out that your passives for ATK% on Sword is incorrect.

        Nemurerumori / Sword / Fujin
        Guild: COLOSSUS
        Game ID: 2017106838
        ----- ID: Slypheed
        Password: 123456

        Comment


        • Mirabelle
          Mirabelle commented
          Editing a comment
          Nemurerumori My ATK% on Swords includes Lancer shared traits. It's 48% if you look at it that way.
          General = 3 + 2 + 3 + 5 = 13
          Royal Protector = 3 + 8 + 5 + 2 = 18
          Lancer Shared Traits = 2 + 3 + 5 + 7 = 17
          Total = 48%

        #23
        Mirabelle
        1) Do you find it helpful on quests when there is 1 Soldier present who is able to maintain aggro, letting you know exactly where the 1-person and 3-person attacks are going to hit?

        2) Do you find it helpful on quests when a Soldier is so good at mitigating damage to themselves that you hardly ever have to use a single-target heal on them, even if they have aggro?

        3) Do you find it helpful on quests when a Soldier is spamming Vanquish on the boss, keeping it constantly at -4 ATK/MATK or lower?
        Not at all, because they might be able to draw the aggro from single hits but thats not that important imo. Also, you are sacrificing one slot for a mixed guy who cant really deal DPS and cant tank for your squad.

        As a healer, you should be able to control the situation just fine (unless someone go crazy with EE)

        If Soldiers were able to do some kind of AOE Reflect or a way to deal Damage by actually Tanking or defending the party members (not based on your DEF status like DS), now that will be an useful member.

        As[ Nemurerumori said, right now they are Pseudo-Lancers who cant inflict break, thats why i think the solution to this problem is giving them abilities to actually tank, rather than an improved Dual Sword.

        Your favorite F2P Archer
        Daivix - ID: 2039871449

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        • Hatsya Souji
          Hatsya Souji commented
          Editing a comment
          Or something with Auto-casting Armor-dependent Meteor Rain ability for soldiers, will go back again for it!

        #24
        I can't imagine why you would ever even need a soldier on your team if you can run full archers and a cleric.
        Sleeper.

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        • Zerockl
          Zerockl commented
          Editing a comment
          thats not only aproblem for soldiers but mages and lancers too, make your own guild, there will be enough rejected classes to fill it

        • Mirabelle
          Mirabelle commented
          Editing a comment
          Last night I ran the Miku event on Arcadia with my guild, and it illustrated a big problem with the role of tank players in difficult content. The time bonus was super strict. We didn't even bring a tank and we still couldn't make it in time. And 2 people died x_x (arguably because we didn't have a tank lol. Saw Valk unbuffed do a 100k crit)

          As long as the time bonus for endgame content remains extremely hard to hit, there's very little argument for running anything other than 1 Cleric + 4 Archers.
          Last edited by Mirabelle; 10-08-2016, 02:41 PM.

        • Guest's Avatar
          Guest commented
          Editing a comment
          Zerockl Lancer is fine because it would be better to have a good Lancer replace one of those archers for best results due to break. Soldiers and mage have nothing to bring

        #25
        There was a Unison League video I watched from youtube. It was early day of UL when a extremely difficult quest just released. In order to beat it, they positioned a soldier on the very bottom or top to draw aggro (when hit, only 2 members will damage). They will keep restarting quest until proper position is in place. Then you cast barrier on the near by member for splash damage.

        Two improvements in game that can immediately make soldier useful.

        1. Release extremely high damage new event/quest, it will one hit every class except tank soldier/cleric.
        2. Let us position where we stand, so we can make sure soldier can tank properly.
        "All of our unhappiness comes from our inability to be alone." Jean de la Bruyere

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        • Mirabelle
          Mirabelle commented
          Editing a comment
          Stoic Gosh being able to switch positions on the fly (or even just position based on order within the room) would be so nice.

          I think we already have some pretty hard-hitting enemies in paragon/arcadia content, though! It's mostly bosses. Recently, Ra had a really hard-hitting single-target multi-hit attack. Valkyrie hits extremely hard with Slash (I have a recording of her hitting a 100k crit on one my guild members, lol)

          I think it's relatively easy to build a soldier set that takes mimimal damage from nearly everything while still holding aggro. (Antagonize + Mirror Guard + whatever as a simple example.) It's just difficult to do that while still keeping up dps, which needs to be done to make the time bonus.

        • HalcyonFelicity
          HalcyonFelicity commented
          Editing a comment
          as a squishy archer I want to move away from soldier cuz aggro, clerics would probably panic about healing me and ill STILL die...
          Last edited by HalcyonFelicity; 10-08-2016, 11:36 PM. Reason: added one more word into the postttt

        #26
        Originally posted by Stoic View Post
        There was a Unison League video I watched from youtube. It was early day of UL when a extremely difficult quest just released. In order to beat it, they positioned a soldier on the very bottom or top to draw aggro (when hit, only 2 members will damage). They will keep restarting quest until proper position is in place. Then you cast barrier on the near by member for splash damage.

        Two improvements in game that can immediately make soldier useful.

        1. Release extremely high damage new event/quest, it will one hit every class except tank soldier/cleric.
        2. Let us position where we stand, so we can make sure soldier can tank properly.
        The bad thing is aggro drawing is inconsistent though its gotten better
        Name: [FE]Nix
        ID: 2070886296
        GS:800k

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          #27
          I think we can unanimously agree that soldiers pre-5th ring having the ability to burst as well as lancers while keeping their defences high was seriously broken. So it's nice there's two options, the tank or dps route with tradeoffs. The big issue is tank soldiers have limited use in difficult PvE content. The last time I recalled tank soldiers being useful was... the Valentine's event Arcadia difficulty. Where having a soldier taking aggro on top/bottom positions would drastically help your cleric pre-target heals while protecting your squishies. Maybe they would've been useful in Zephyrus, but I haven't seen any for obvious reasons. I think there needs to be more events like that, more enemies, more single/AoE attacks and less of the % attack nonsense. There also needs to be an option to reconfigure your party's order in pre-made lobbies, even friend questing doesn't work sometimes.

          Another problem is the ever lasting powercreep in monsters. Now we have monsters that buff and protect like Snow White, or drastically increase dps like Wind Athena, whereas back then there was usually some tradeoff between buffs and protection on the boss. So it becomes easier to sweep through content with these overpowered monsters and a full dps team.

          "Rank 3 casual hype"

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          • Gang
            Gang commented
            Editing a comment
            Agree. Nezha used to be great, valk used to sweet, Kirin used to be awesome. Now they are just average, since Ateam went ahead and combined all the best monsters skills together and say, Whale, spend your money.

          • Chaz
            Chaz commented
            Editing a comment
            Stoic C. R. E. A. M.!

          #28
          A big problem imo right now is that basically every high leveled boss in the game has a party wide % attack that makes your hp meaningless. Bring tanky doesn't matter when you are put down to like 5% hp right through your defenses.

          This is the reason why most parties prefer just to go full dps and kill the boss as fast as they can. A prolonged fight with one of these bosses greatly increases your death chance. This is especially true with bosses like Ra that will just barrier and heal so much that he becomes basically unkillable. 4 archer or 4 mage parties will literally pop a boss in seconds with the right buffs, so being less tanky is a non factor.
          Last edited by Chronic; 10-09-2016, 09:32 AM.

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            #29
            A-team tried to make soldiers offensive tanks and succeeded with 4th ring. They wanted to again and avoid a huge sh*t storm so did not give DI the ATK and DEF scale in the 5th. They did that and didn't really give us something good in place of it ( Battle shout)

            For example instead a 20%HP and ATK buff change it to increase hits of ATK based abilities up to 2

            Give Dual impact a +2 debuff

            Raging slash AP increases with damage taken. AP resets after every use
            Last edited by Rezorrose; 10-09-2016, 05:30 PM.

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            • HotMessExpress
              HotMessExpress commented
              Editing a comment
              Or replace the 20% HP with a mirror or something. The added HP isn't doing much (as people have said, because any important boss is hitting high % defense-ignoring damage) and in some cases it's getting the soldiers hassled because people think they're bringing HB. At least a mirror might add to damage output

            #30
            Wait... "Soldiers is the new Lancer" :O That means people won't kick me!
            ~F2P Noob~​ A Lancer Wanna-Be /)*^*/) (6/18/16) IGN: LucyWhite ID: 2142597804 GS: 310k LvL 160
            #F2PNub Feel Free To Add Me And Chat (/^3^)/

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            • LaconicLeaf
              LaconicLeaf commented
              Editing a comment
              Even in 4th Ring, Lancers still had the OP Basic Attack and Break utility. If Double Sting, Break Thrust, and Dragon Crush were as good back then as they are now, then Lancer's 4th Ring wouldn't actually be that bad.
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