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The Lancer Problem

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    #16
    I think much of the frustration that comes from lancers comes from solo players. Archers and Mages do have a stronger ability to carry random groups on utility alone. I have been playing lancer since I started this game and I do think our damage is a little underwhelming compared to other classes as advertised. 100% break is not the solution, if youre having issues with breaking then its likely due to bad RNG, which is a thing in any game ever. Even 1 ability with instant break chance would have too significant an impact and things like raid and arcadia would have to be significantly tankier to compensate. To keep it short and sweet, some minor tweaks that I think would be great are class bonuses not related to proficiency, such as bonus damage OR an increased reduction of defensive stats for lancers on broken tgts or more creative combos.

    Please remember that this game is only somewhat balanced, and what balancing is done is based on team efforts. Sorry pal, you're gonna have to make some friends.

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      #17
      Cervex Helms are actually supposed to be very useful for lancers since they have double helm passives one in the 4th ring and another in the sub trait list. I personally don't use it because helms give def. So I'm using the cloth armor and armor passives for more mdef.

      I think that since lancers have pretty much zero offensive capability and have so many passive boosts to attack, they are better off sacrificing some of that attack for defense which kinda evens things up, (hence the sword and shield thing which by the way fits the soldier archetype much more than anything else) and with that defense they are capable of staying alive and breaking opponents defense for everyone else to deal the "real" damage. (Which makes me feel like more of soldier / sword and shield user than anything else.)

      Essentially lancers are with clerics as merely a tanky support class.
      (Whose role is to stay alive and sponge up damage and apply break to all enemies for the rest of the party to deal damage. Which by the way most classes can easily apply break and lancers aren't as reliable as you think in terms of break success. I have two heart of spears and a heart of lancer and sometimes archers and mages can break faster than I can. Hello burkesnipe archers. Thanks for bringing that to mob because you obviously can get through a passa or a golem with that even with my breaks failing to proc.

      Lancers are not damage dealers. Which by the way isn't what the class description describes lancers to be. Which by the way I'm totally not okay with considering the fact that huge intimidating pole arms and the fire element are typically depicted as raw power and dominance in most games, also Lancers do have a huge advantage in the attack stat but their abilities fail to flaunt this power like other classes can. They have attack boosts in every circle, you would think that with all this emphasis on attack that you should build and focus on that. They even have a crit damage boost passive AND ability alongside a crit chance increase buff which all are totally useless because 1. Lancers aren't damage dealers anymore and 2. Lancers don't have high crit chance. We have potential to be hard crit hitters; otherwise why else would these crit tools be here? Instead our crit potential is laughable because of the incorrectly and inefficiently implemented crit abilities. It's as if they were trying to make Lancers Crit beasts who are capable of having the highest attack stat in the game and having the hardest possible hits in the game. But instead they have to be a lame support class that nobody really needs in their party. And people should shut up about top ranking lancers with enough infusions to back up their 70-80k attack with additional defense because that's a terrible example, not all players have access to what they have. Oh and Lancers do have the biggest weapons and you would think they'd have the biggest offensive advantage out of everyone but they don't. I find it ironic how they're the ones with the small swords in Ace 's analogy.)
      Last edited by Celica; 04-20-2016, 08:25 PM.
      Bring Gender Spawn back!

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      • Celica
        Celica commented
        Editing a comment
        So tell me vzReo why do Lancers have attack passives in every single circle, a passive that increases crit power, a buff that increases crit power, and a buff that boosts crit chance if they aren't supposed to be damage dealers? What are all these potential crit enhancing tools even there for if we aren't even meant to be a heavy hitting class with an emphasis on attack? Why does our skill tree mislead us so much towards the fact that we should have the highest attack and that we should be the hardest hitters / hardest crit hitters in the game, when we are simply only meant for break support?

        Why are archers so powerful when they have potential to be more of a support class with worlds tree blessing, poem of spirits, wind of courage, balancing, jinx? I don't know about you but I don't think I see the word critical anywhere in the archer skill tree. Just based on the direction of the trees and the way other games have depicted these classes, lancers should be the dps class and archers should be the support. In fact if it weren't for fatal having 100% crit chance, I wonder how much more balanced out and not so disgustingly OP archers would be without 100% crit chance on fatal. You archers aren't even playing archers. I see no raw attack boosts or crit boosts in your skill tree. You're playing an entirely different class given to you by your weapons. The game incorrectly implemented these classes and created huge negative misdirection for lancers and overly positive misdirection for archers. Ateam Admin I think these issues should be looked at for the sake of balancing and actually following the skill tree and the class archetypes themselves.
        Last edited by Celica; 04-20-2016, 09:17 PM.

      • Cervex
        Cervex commented
        Editing a comment
        Celica On point.

      • Guest's Avatar
        Guest commented
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        Celica they are for balancing purposes obviously lol. Would you have to lose them to see otherwise? Then you would really complain about being useless

      #18
      Not much is wrong with us lancers we could use a lil buff but nothing extreme. Also if you're failing with the 6/3/3/6 build then maybe you need to look at your guild. I function as a front line juggernaut and crystal breaker due to having a solid tank and great healer.

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        #19
        It's not the class that's strong, it's the player :< and of course having Benjamins also help. Breaking golems is hard, even for lancers...

        I don't think you've met top tier lancers, they are frightening beasts. Lancers are kinda like tablets as in they're in the middle. They can't do massive dmg instantaneously like Mage or archers, and they can't tank well like soldiers or clerics. But at the same time there's a reason why high dps archers are squishy, mages have lower base hp, clerics can't dmg, and soldiers...well no soldiers are kinda blessed with ds :

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          #20
          I have noticed that up through my own experience I easily held my own up till about level 70, somewhere in there, when all those slots open up Lancers start to become much much more gear dependent. There's a gap where you have weapons, mostly with a variety of skill procs, some of which are entirely useless for PvE. Until about level 90-110. Where you start to be able to stack everything enough that you get consistent procs, consistent breaks, and deal reliable damage.

          I could be mistaken, but seems that weapon procs literally make or break the class in terms of it's usefulness. Pun intended.


          TL;DR PROCS are life, if you are a pay to player, you can be a great lancer. If you are a F2P player it feels like a lot of work (and luck) has to be invested to actually be viable.

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          • Meme Lord
            Meme Lord commented
            Editing a comment
            Pretty much applies to every DPS class, nothing you said is new.

          #21
          I'm a lancer and I've been playing lancer ever since I first started the game. I admit, there are times when I think, "Maybe I should switch to archer..." or something like that. But now I think I've grown to love the class more. I do think we can be "outshined" by other classes at times, but I guess it's kind of like comparing apples to oranges. Or in this case, five different types of fruit for the five classes lmao. You can't directly compare the classes because they're all different.

          It sucks when break doesn't go well and people in Mobius get annoyed at you, but overall it's pretty useful. I remember leaving Mobius and having practically three MVP votes every single time. Maybe I've just gotten comfortable with playing lancer and sometimes I do want to switch around to other classes just for fun. But I think I'll still have lancer as my main just because of everything I've been through in the game ^_^
          i like photography

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          • Celica
            Celica commented
            Editing a comment
            Don't you think lancers were more fun back then, you know.. when they actually dominated? Apples and oranges.. I think right now lancers are shriveled up grapes. In mobius even with spear procs, I had some runs where I just couldn't break anything. The mages and archers ended up breaking for us. I just don't see anything special that we have compared to everyone else. Unless they remove break from all classes but lancers.

          • Amaris
            Amaris commented
            Editing a comment
            Celica (sorry I don't post much in forums so idk if you'll actually see this). I know what you mean but to be honest, I still have fun being lancer. I agree that lancers could be better and I wish A-Team loved us a little more but I still think it's a nice class to play. We may not be &quot;special&quot; but I think we're still important.

          #22
          The main problem with the Lancer gear set blessing is how the Armor Proc Priority system works.

          If you have Offensive Procs in your Main Armor slots, they will have priority over Weapon Sub Slot procs.
          Thus, you'll have moments where you see Apollo's Glory double proc, or Apollo's Glory proc alongside Apollo's Favor.

          Noticed this when I moved my Apollo set to sub slots (weapon being placed after all my Heart of the Spears) for a few runs of Vol & Lena 45 AP. I had 4 Heart of the Spear lances equipped, and I saw more double procs of it than Apollo's Glory/Favor.

          Only real way to work around this is to keep your Apollo's Glory procs at Lv. 1 (don't use Exp Limimins at all when reforging and augmenting at max UR) to minimize the odds of it proccing over a Heart of the Spear. The other option is to move the armor pieces to sub slots, but you'll lose the +10% ATK blessing effect.

          So if you're having trouble breaking things, maybe this is why. (Doubt they'd rework the Proc Priority system again so it would make sub weapons proc over main armors)
          Last edited by LaconicLeaf; 04-23-2016, 05:02 PM.


          IGN: FN || Leaf ID: 2042811095

          This Is How You DO Play Lancers

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          • Aichis
            Aichis commented
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            Easier alternative would be to give the Apollo lance, heart of the sting over physical testament. Lol

          • LaconicLeaf
            LaconicLeaf commented
            Editing a comment
            Aichis Have a feeling they might be doing just that for the next set of Blessing Gear Sets...

          • Vostera
            Vostera commented
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            LaconicLeaf we're getting another set!? When? Does jp have it already?

          #23
          Learn to differentiate lack of skill and unbalancement.
          IGN: Feyris
          Guild: St. Royal
          ID: 2114846166

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          • Meme Lord
            Meme Lord commented
            Editing a comment
            I'm losing brain cells just by reading your posts.. They're all redundant and irrelevant. I. Don't. Play. Lancer. Got it?

          • Celica
            Celica commented
            Editing a comment
            FreakingLobster unless you're a lancer, you're not complaining because your class didn't get crippled. It's like saying you have a million dollar house and you're not complaining, well no ****

            (Assuming you're an archer) Look at me, I have an archer and I'm OP, I'm not complaining about my class. Also It wouldn't be fair to nerf us like they did to those lancers. Because we need to stay OP cause we're meant to be OP.
            Last edited by Celica; 04-23-2016, 10:34 PM.

          • FreakingLobster
            FreakingLobster commented
            Editing a comment
            Did you try the mage class just to see if lancers are such a disadvantage ? This can go on for hours and everyone wants the last word so I'll read whatever response you have and then go to sleep and probably never look at these again.
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