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Soldier class weak in all areas

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  • time13omb
    commented on 's reply
    Even then with 250k atk with battle shout you could still os glass canon
    But if it is your main class then you try to optimize said class. Also, its not just a colo set but can be used for gb duel colo and quest
    The attack stat should always be gouged with defense if you are playing soldier

  • Peppermintiger
    commented on 's reply
    That really sounds like it has less to do with soldiers being strong PvP and more to do with the fact that anyone with 300k in any relevant stat is potentially terrifying. It also highlights what I mean by the level of investment being ridiculous; currently 300k atk is top 25. Not exactly 'not far from reach... for every soldier.'
    Also, I'm curious as to what that FL would look like? A soldier running rage slash, battle shout, and counter seems like it would be a good Colo set but putting in that kinda effort just... to be really good at just Colo(?) seems slightly ludicrous.

  • muda
    commented on 's reply
    I think you're a little confused about the class system. As a decent mage, I've been OS by a well built soldier's RS. It takes 250k - 300k atk/def and a double proc, but it has certainly happened. The CD on RS is much faster than guard as well, meaning the soldier usually gets a follow up shot in when guard comes off CD. There's a reason historically why some of the top GS players in the game have consistently been soldiers.

    Soldiers and Rooks do not fulfill the same function.

    Zerker is viable to all attacking classes depending on gear/preference; of course they can use magic.

    Lancers should never been considered DPS. They are designed to utilize the break mechanic, and deliver high AP hits that will pierce defense stats. A well built lancer can put out decent DPS, but they will never be a DPS class in the same sense as Mages, Archers, or Zerkers.

  • Bastion
    replied
    If we go about what each class is supposed to do, its an utter mess, zerkers using magic, lancers with low backend dps, soldiers shadowed by rooks... go figure.

    Leave a comment:


  • rpaulojade
    replied
    I've always thought of pallys as strong but after reading this thread I'm starting to understand what you mean by them slowly not being viable or needing that necessary buff. Though I still haven't seen this pally party discrimination tho.
    Thanks for the post btw.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peppermintiger
    commented on 's reply
    Yeah, I still I miss having fun actually playing this class and would still like to see something done. Crazy, huh?

  • Dengo
    commented on 's reply
    You got the prize Silver Shovel of The Week, for digging up so deep on a dead topic.

  • time13omb
    replied
    Interesting, I actually disagree with soldiers being weak in pvp
    Due to sb being more powerful than ever, most players are stacking magic nulls in mainslot
    Now if you get these nulls infused to skill lv6 you can up the proc rate of null to 40% per null
    Almost the flip of a coin. While stacking insane amount of defenses to cover your other side.
    You also have access to the most powerful buff in the game called Battle shout
    A soldier with 300k atk with max infused magic null and concentrate opener is very very scary.
    Considering after battle shout you get 390k atk,which is ridiculous you can get those offenses at the beginning of battle.
    Rage slash and counter become os moves
    Very demanding build but not far from reach tbh for every soldier

    Leave a comment:


  • Kayane
    commented on 's reply
    niconutela I meant for soldiers to have a skill where they can take all the incoming damage for a longer time than rook maybe like make aggro so that every attack including uni goes to soldier

    It would kill the oneshot uni since at the beginning of the round all the soldier would have to do is cast aggro and he would be the only one to die to the uni lol

  • Peppermintiger
    replied
    (I'm late but whatever.)

    What's a lot of people miss is that the issue is less about soldiers not having any good points, and more about playability. It's obvious soldiers have their good points, otherwise no one would have invested in them, but you know what I'm hearing a lot of? 'Soldiers do this well but _____ does it better.' Which would be fine if it wasn't for every. single. thing. The fact of the matter is the class was never the easiest to play, but part of the charm was if you stuck with it, focused, and invested in it, you had the joy of becoming highly competent and invaluable in PvP.

    I think what a lot of people don't realize how so many of the changes over time, the addition of new classes, and the following changes in the meta impacted the usefulness of soldiers in PvP, cumulatively. Sure, lancers had always done the whole atk stat thing better, but when the focus ****ed that way, it wasn't the worst route, since archers were usually the biggest threat in the FL and being there as a counter was pretty common. Now, if we see crazy scary damage in the FL there's a good chance it'll be a zerker or a mage which is less than ideal, especially since soldiers loose out building too mdef heavy. Abilities had already moved away from building completely defensively, but for those who stuck with it, going from soldier to rook wasn't too far of a stretch. Even though getting to uni first is still a big deal, the real stars in that are no longer soldiers, but THs.
    Saying 'hey this one move is still good, especially in this one situation' only serves to further highlight the problem; how outdated what's considered good on a soldier is, and how incredibly niche a situation has to be for a soldier to be considered an effective option, much less the most effective option.

    Some of the comparisons to the current situation are utterly laughable at best. I mean, clerics are still absolutely vital in so many cases, in both PvP and PvE. Even pre-SB buff, playing mage wasn't all that bad. You were underwhelming in PvP but solid for PvE, and though you might get kicked for a full archer team, it was pretty rare. (I still remember the joy of one-shotting soldiers and managing to avoid hitting their reflects...)

    That said, I was never that up in arms about the SB buff, since it took a class that was inoptimal in PvP and gave it a game breaking ability that was a pain in the butt to everyone. Sure, soldiers had to deal with the class they were weakest against becoming incredibly strong, but since soldiers only shone in PvP when built right, the fact that the newer classes can do a lot of what they did effectively pretty hurt almost as much.

    Right now, playing pally is essentially being that kid that's always picked last for teams, but instead of being picked last, you just never get picked at all. Even worse is that the lack of value in PvE isn't so much that people aren't playing smart or being completely ignorant, it's that refrain of soldiers 'aren't great at this' or 'this other class does it better/faster/harder/stronger' that actually makes kicking every soldier an efficient decision that's at least partially based on collective intelligence; easier to kick them all than spend time trying to figure out if this underwhelming class you don't play is good at it or now.

    There is very little space where soldiers are optimal or necessary, even if they are exceedingly well built. That isn't to say that soldiers are terrible, it's just that the level of investment and focus you need to be considered a 'decent' one is frankly, rather ridiculous (for a game), considering how much less you can put into practically any other class and be considered the same.

    Honestly, it's not even that soldiers just need a buff but, they also need a niche; something that is uncontestably useful in some area of game play and doesn't mean you have to be well geared AND top 100 in gs to be considered merely 'decent.'

    Leave a comment:


  • muda
    commented on 's reply
    A zerk using KD with anti reflect damage procs is way scary than SB. Try bringing guard and guarding a SB, I can usually tank it. Against double SB there isn't much to be done. Remember HP ups get the 3x effect in duels like in colo .

    SB isn't really that broken since anti reflect damage procs exist now. TH is the real broken class if you come across a 600k TH with kroyt, although dual barrier opening with a barrier on top will counter opening uni spam.

  • RyuzakiKyojin
    commented on 's reply
    I do exist here you know.

    And yeah 5th, now I do PVE as Berserker because it's a lot better in terms of dps. And I've gotten kicked from parties only once (since like 5 days of questing).

  • RyuzakiKyojin
    commented on 's reply
    Exactly my thoughts tbh

  • the5th1
    commented on 's reply
    I`ll Send him a screenshot for you Attie

  • Faust
    commented on 's reply
    Oh man. It's painful to read through that thread.
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