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Soldier class weak in all areas

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    Soldier class weak in all areas

    With the recent changes and addition of new classes to the game. We’re noticing a balance issue in regards to the effectiveness of pallys in pvp/pve and their role overall in comparison to other classes.

    Previously (before the changes) Pallys had a definitive role in pvp. Holding up front line as tanks, cheering, and protecting other softer classes. While they were always considered the last choice in almost all things PVE, aside from Mobius which required 5 different classes per party, so even though last picked were still viable in that role.

    With the addition of new, better dps classes. Pallys now no longer have a place in any PVE situation and simply are undesired and removed from all higher level parties on sight. Most parties would rather group with a lower geared berserker, archer, mage, lancer than a top tier soldier.

    In PVP, soldiers role has become single purpose. Cheer until you die from starburst. Its a pretty sad situation for the class and for those who used to play it. Much of the pally community as per chat groups has all but disbanded, with players opting to simply play other roles or retire from the game.

    Im sure there will be those here who view and respond to this post as mere whining over the nerf of the previous RS meta. But it really isnt. Its simply stating facts of the current situation with a horribly underpowered class. There needs to be some sort of update soon addressing Pallys role in PVE in particular, because i for one am getting tired of supporting a game where the class i chose to play has become less than viable.
    Last edited by Chobi; 08-18-2018, 05:01 PM.

    #2
    I swabbed my gb soldier for rook, I lost a lot of dps, and did fairly well in gb as soldier, but seems Rooks are the "Real Royal protectors", and I still use soldier in PvE, and I do get kicked ( why? I'm 670k )? I bring utilities, I do elemental gear according to the quests, so yea, I feel you on the kicking part.

    Comment


      #3
      I dont think soldier are exactly useless, as you say in PvP.On the last colo they held up rather well, as to say vs Starburst killing them well its simple mages are counter to warriors.(aswell as SB is strong) While i do think warriors are less efficient then they use too they arent as bad a clerics uses... But then again now you know how cleric mains feel, try doing crystal as cleric.

      Comment


        #4
        Was a good op class at first but now there are a lot of random different, maybe better options

        aggro isn't worth much now, because boss just go full 5 people aoe (or full party aoe), throwing % everywhere in pve, so rook is better at tanking the whole party (and stun is op, even if you mostly will stun a mobs 1-2 time before the stun resist become too high)

        ofc whale soldier still do op damage, but they are kinda rare

        last good role in pve imo is the legendary forgotten vanquish build, throwing any mobs from 0 buff/debuff to -8 atk/matk with a dual proc, that need the 29 cost secret of the sword gb medals sword and all the nezha sword you can get from video spawn (or saved from the past, because it's a 27 cost UR light sword and isn't in most gem spawn anyomore because of the 28c+ stuff)

        throwing a vanquish build in Mitama united offense and having rush up each 30sec was fun tho (y'all need more balance btw)
        Last edited by niconutela; 08-18-2018, 05:18 PM.
        700-900k+ GS main archer (vary with an elemental set) ; idk wut k+ GS all other class (was playing them all)
        ID: 2042972836 in case u wanna ask me stuff in game or stalk me idk

        > check my Field effect post if you got time, thx ( updated with elemental attack and Collapse )

        First Fire Mobius (4/14/2016 - 4/20/2016) : Rank 1 ( Total Points ; Group A )

        Comment


        • Miss Bliss
          Miss Bliss commented
          Editing a comment
          Oooh I'm rare =)

        • Tripolic X
          Tripolic X commented
          Editing a comment
          I also use a Vanquish set during SUO because it just makes sense.

        #5
        I don't know if i should agree with you, They still have utility against Archers, They are also know was cheer class, Because not even other class have Cheers skill related to him.

        Comment


        • BlueDragonSonder
          BlueDragonSonder commented
          Editing a comment
          Miss Bliss Does 2 years counts? But back there... There was Advanced job (I'm talking on 2015 on December since that is where my adventures on UL started) and i remember very well that Dragon Blitz was indeed a DPs Skill, The rest were breaking.

        • Miss Bliss
          Miss Bliss commented
          Editing a comment
          Yes, and may not of been so much DPS compared to Archers back then, but to do the most damage, you were either Lancer or Soldier. Honestly, lancers should just zerk now, soldiers rook, archers stay archers or TH, and with mages being OP, stay as mage or go mage zerk.

        • BlueDragonSonder
          BlueDragonSonder commented
          Editing a comment
          Miss Bliss Yes, I kinda want Soldiers buffed now, Give they something that make they good, Like ah... More Health or given they a start heaven breath (Atleast 15% to prevent getting KOed) The only thing that they serve is again for Cheers.

        #6
        Originally posted by [King
        Sonder;n294037]I don't know if i should agree with you, They still have utility against Archers, They are also know was cheer class, Because not even other class have Cheers skill related to him.

        Archers are not Front line meta at the moment, so the feasability of having soldiers as counters to archers doesnt make sense.
        Most other DPS classes are better at killing archers than a cheer pally is. If you are bringing mostly utlity, than you arent bringing rage slash.
        So to that point, no, cheer soldiers are not counters to front line archers at all.

        The only role a soldier has in gb is to cheer. If they are not cheer pallies, then there are better classes for what ever else they do. As cheer pallies, they are not viable as they get one shotted by starburst.

        So we as players spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on a game to log in 3 times a day to cheer until starbursted, then get kicked from every pve party when not in a guild battle.
        Do you see how this is not a very enjoyable experience?
        Last edited by Chobi; 08-18-2018, 06:27 PM.

        Comment


        • BlueDragonSonder
          BlueDragonSonder commented
          Editing a comment
          Like i said before, They may get Starbusted right on face until Ateam Decide what they gonna do with the Pirce skill, since that is what have been causing troubles to alot of people that isn't mage. I know that FL Archers aren't the meta, But you get my meaning when its come to Colosseum.

        #7
        Even a fix to piercer does not mean Pallies will be viable in PVE which makes up most of the game.
        Every other class can play their main class in PVP and PVE, why are pally players forced to play an alternate class just to be accepted into parties. Pallies need either more damage in PVE via a mutlihit skill, or a unique utility that makes them required for parties, such as break, treasure hunt, heals are for their respective classes. Right now pallies have no role in PVE at all. Groups do not need cheers in PVE.



        Comment


        • muda
          muda commented
          Editing a comment
          A zerk using KD with anti reflect damage procs is way scary than SB. Try bringing guard and guarding a SB, I can usually tank it. Against double SB there isn't much to be done. Remember HP ups get the 3x effect in duels like in colo .

          SB isn't really that broken since anti reflect damage procs exist now. TH is the real broken class if you come across a 600k TH with kroyt, although dual barrier opening with a barrier on top will counter opening uni spam.

        #8


        Maybe rooks DPS should be dropped to tier 4 - 3 ( but they do have potential if built right to be teir 3 - 2).
        The main thing to notice with this chart is that Every class has a role, wether its PVP or PVE, they all have a reason to exist. All other than pallies.
        The only area they are semi-useful is Utility in PVP - Cheer, but as we know thats not going to happen with the current Mage Meta.
        Last edited by [MOD] Carren; 08-19-2018, 03:31 AM.

        Comment


        • Lucelv
          Lucelv commented
          Editing a comment
          I don't play an archer, but how can mage's DPS be equivalent to a berserker?

        • HotMessExpress
          HotMessExpress commented
          Editing a comment
          This list is lol

        • the5th1
          the5th1 commented
          Editing a comment
          Same tier does not mean equivalent

        #9
        Just gonna point out some weird things with the list.

        Archer is tier 3 in PVE and in PVP. What PVE Utility do they have? Dissonance, Wind of Courage, Diminish are all PvP oriented. You mean Hunter's Song? What about Inspired Sword, Charisma, Heroic Spirit and Heroic Drive? Soldiers can make an entire viable ability set filled to the brim with utility and still deal damage.
        DPS in PvP makes no sense.
        Making a tier list in general for a game like this.

        Comment


          #10
          With the current focus in pve meta to add more group damage via buffs. Yes, hunters song is a lot more useful than cheer, cheer+atk, cheer+1x null proc, and Def boosting from HD. Explain how running a cheer set with a heroic drive is aviable pve set?

          Comment


          • RandomPerson
            RandomPerson commented
            Editing a comment
            Tbh i disagree with hunter song being more useful than cheer. Specially in Harder PVE missions bringing HP drain based skills can be and will be a death sentence. You typically want to spam uni for the buffs and cost recovery. Specially when unison is life or death in most quests(specially the 35c, and 40c match) Only when i see Hp drain skills better then Cheer is when youre quick farming some event.At these time people really arent picky with player.

            What i think youre getting at is more over time sensitive events such as Mobuis in where dps is better then spamming uni as it waste time. But some events like the SUO i would still bring cheer then HP drain skills. Since unison usage in those events are key to winning, the fastest and the most efficient.

            In PvP the archer hunter song is key to any CB rearline, but you wont find much guilds which can truely use this to thier advantage unless youre in S rank and top tier A. But with the new crystal protection add-in were you can take buffs away, you will see the meta change big now you cant just fully buff and one shot. Also! This is were the solider shines the most, to get your team to the CB mode anyways you need to kill 5 anyways. The easiest to do so is your Unison gauge. Warriors uni build, and or TH builds are a key part to doing this. And of course thier is a SB from mages that are extremely strong vs Warriors(as they are a clear counter) you should primarily build your warrior with Mage counter skills. Say your sub skills, or subclass skills bring mage counters instead of GS boosters. This will help big time. Also this helps in colo big aswell, warriors are still very strong in colo. With a counter mage set up, a good atk and def ( that you should have) you can survive archers(archers should not be one shotting you.) and lancers (of course without break). Also having a well timed guard and or counter is a plus.

            Personally dont see warriors as a weaker class in any means, just a class that if used properly in different scenario can be one of the best or one of the worst. If we buff the warrior people will complain it needs a nerf, or other classes need a buff. We seen and lived with it many times over already. With archer being one of the weakest of any class, to one of the top rated glass cannons. And to the mage getting killed by reflects, and getting bullied by the Physical offensive builds, to the one whose doing the bullying. We found ways to counter time after time well get over it.

            P.S still waiting for the revival of the cleric...(battle cleric maybe?.. hmm????.)
            Last edited by RandomPerson; 08-19-2018, 01:51 AM.

          #11
          Soldiers are mediocre in most content. I already talked about this in detail months ago and got a lot of trash tier responses from noobs. Don't really care to discuss it now. Already loss most interest in the game and don't spend a dime anymore. Not really interested in getting ohkoed even by trash tier mages and praying for a lucky null magic to save me. Game balance is trash and soldiers are complete garbage in pve content where a 600k-700k gs soldier is less desirable than 500k of other classes. They aren't even that great in pvp either anymore.

          Soldiers need a major rework and/or other skills like starburst need a nerf.

          Btw I saw this coming from a mile away many many months ago. Now some people realize how bad it really is I guess. You won't really know how bad it is for pallies unless:

          1) A Pally main
          2) At least have a good idea of the game.

          Most people aren't 1 or 2 they just parrot on when they are ignorant but like I said I knew how bad it was going to get a while back.
          Last edited by felixng2016; 08-19-2018, 07:39 AM.
          Name: [FE]Nix
          ID: 2070886296
          GS:800k

          Comment


            #12
            Originally posted by RandomPerson View Post
            I dont think soldier are exactly useless, as you say in PvP.On the last colo they held up rather well, as to say vs Starburst killing them well its simple mages are counter to warriors.(aswell as SB is strong) While i do think warriors are less efficient then they use too they arent as bad a clerics uses... But then again now you know how cleric mains feel, try doing crystal as cleric.
            Not only is SB grossly unbalanced, way more so than break thrust or rage slash since it can hit up to 5 times but it also gets 5x the benefit from class advantage due to hitting 5 times vs 1 time.

            The thing with class advantage is its nice and gives you the edge over the other class like archer vs lancer or lancer vs mage but it isn't an auto win.

            1v1 mage vs soldier mage will win 100% of the time unless you got the best luck and can keep proccing magic nulls which is a major crap shoot.

            Pvp was the only decent thing about soldier tbh. No one wants soldier for pve since dps is so important and soldier has bad dps tbh even with mega att/def.
            Name: [FE]Nix
            ID: 2070886296
            GS:800k

            Comment


            • Lucelv
              Lucelv commented
              Editing a comment
              Soldiers hit faster than mages though. By the time starburst is done casting there's only a dead piece of mage left.

            • felixng2016
              felixng2016 commented
              Editing a comment
              Lucelv. In what dimension does a soldier ohko a mage? Try making a coherent argument please. If you are going to argue that oh you can have multiple players target a mage then!

              Ok so you need 2-3 guys to kill a mage instantly while a single mage can ohko a soldier not a good tradeoff.

            • Lucelv
              Lucelv commented
              Editing a comment
              It does happen. Even if it doesn't, lancers will 1hko mages. You should be arguing the outcome of soldiers VS archers anyway. Even -if- mages are stronger than mage in 1v1, it's like saying that paper wins rock and it's unfair. You should be talking about how rock doesn't win scissors.

            #13


            Pvp was the only decent thing about soldier tbh. No one wants soldier for pve since dps is so important and soldier has bad dps tbh even with mega att/def.
            Most PVE content is time sensitive. Even when looking at random drop or grinding events. The faster players can clear content the more often/ quickly they can cycle and acquire the items they are after. The point about SUO is true, where cheer is important, however, every class can cheer and that’s much preferred over one player bringing 3-4 cheer moves. SUO is not difficult to complete with a strong team. Stronger players do not consider this difficult content, so yes Pallys are welcomed to join SUO parties as charity carry. But where it really counts Pallys are the ugly stepchild of classes in pve. I don’t think there would be even one higher tier player that mains pally and has played through this scenario that would disagree. It’s obvious the game has become extremely boring for pally mains as indicated by the number of high profile pally mains retiring of being completely inactive. Many more of the previous top tier Pallys I’ve spoken with over this last week have considered semi- retirement from this game, as am I.

            A-team needs to rework Pallys. Make them viable in pve, make pvp more than just cheering then dieing to sb. That’s the bottom line. This change is sorely needed and the longer it takes to happen the more of the original pally player base will leave. Considering some of the top pallies are also the largest spenders in this game, at least in NA, maybe that will count for something.

            I don’t know if A-team even reads these threads, or if these forums is just a place for the community to scream in the dark. But if you are reading this A-team, you need to do something big, and soon about this. We (pally mains who haven’t already quit, have been extremely patient about the changes. Despite seeing over half of the line community quit over balance issues and dull game play, we’ve stuck it out to see what would come next. No more, fix it or more of us are moving on.

            Comment


              #14
              As a Soldier main I feel this

              Comment


              • BenkeiEX
                BenkeiEX commented
                Editing a comment
                Clerics still have the one use they are meant for. No class can heal like a cleric. Many quests like to have em.

              • RandomPerson
                RandomPerson commented
                Editing a comment
                Many quest as in only the hard quests... but quests you farmining and grinding a big nope. Since most groups dont need heals. Also their is crystal attack were clerics are the number one useless class in the game..

              • felixng2016
                felixng2016 commented
                Editing a comment
                @RandomPerson

                Most soldiers play cleric and most clerics play soldier. So fail to see your point. That is double bad good job.

              #15
              No... Soldiers still have a place in PVP, and I might even say they are top-tier for pvp (good soldiers, not defensive ones). In front line, doing more damage than the other person doesn't matter if your attack is faster and does enough to kill.
              In the case of soldiers, they have the shortest cooldown on their Rage slash.
              Comparing piercer skills:
              Soldier - 7s - fast animation - medium damage - double proc weapon available
              Lancer - 8s - fast animation - low/medium damage - double proc weapon not available
              Mage - 8s - slow animation - high damage - double proc weapon available but very rare
              Zerker - 8s - fast animation - medium damage - double proc weapon available

              Yes, that 1 second matters a lot. On top of that, they still have the highest hp in the game. Also, since many top players are concentrating on magic nulls to prevent mage/archer/zerk/treasure, phys-based attacks are actually becoming more effective than before.

              I agree that Pallys could use a boost in PVE. If they changed Sacred Hand to target 3 on the team, rather than 3 adjacent, they'd be verrryyyy useful in 40c quests.
              Last edited by gummy; 08-19-2018, 05:04 PM.

              Comment


              • gummy
                gummy commented
                Editing a comment
                Abyss, please list all of the starburst double proc weapons. For availability, I've seen them in spawns only once.
                Rage slash has been available in class spawns several times, as well as available via medal spawn several times - same with Raging pain.

              • Abyss
                Abyss commented
                Editing a comment
                What do you mean by ''list all of the Starburst double proc weapons''? Starburst can get a double proc of Magical testament XL/XL, XL/XXL, XXL/XXL. Some mages also use Fatal Testament XL/XXL XXL/XXL, which can double proc as well. And if you mean ''starburst double proc weapons'' if there are weapons with procs for Starburst, no. XL/XXL on Starburst is already overpowered enough.

              • gummy
                gummy commented
                Editing a comment
                Abyss, I'm sorry for the confusion. I was referring to ''Assault Testament (rapid cast)'' which is a double starburst proc on a single weapon.
                In your way of thinking, these weapons would allow a quad-proc, since each weapon adds extra damage on top of the regular testament XL.

                These weapons look like this:
                Chance to massively increase magic damage when using an Ability.
                Added effect: Massively increases Ability Power of "Star Burst" and "Empress Bind".

                Anyway, a quad-proc rage slash would do around 160 + 80 + 80 = 320 ability power. Add in two damage constants, and the rage slash could be doing 340 ability power. Sure, it's easier to get starburst damage into one-shot territory, but in a match between such a soldier and pretty much any mage that doesn't null, the soldier would win because of faster action speed.
                Add in the addition of elevation weapons, and the Soldier's advantage grows even more, since the main slots are now reliable. Rage Slash double proc main weapon + fatal hat: 160 + 80 + 50 = 290 ability power - also quite high.
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